Halcyon sueing OxyCheq, US Divers and others?

[MXGratefulDiver]

FWIW - IDI's legal trouble had nothing to do with Halcyon ... it was a suit filed by the company's former owner. I got that information from the letter IDI sent out to it's dealers.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[OneBrightGator]

The only connection between JJ, Halcyon and the lawsuit is the fact that Carmichael holds a postion on the board of GUE. A training agency which did not bring the suit (or, as a legal person, has any involvement with the patents that I can see).

If you can't see the nepotism in the whole organization you must be blind.

Ben

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

It would probably be a good idea for people to *stop* mentioning his name in connection with the lawsuit, and have a good hard think of the potential consequences of continuing to do so.

Please explain the consequences you have thought of.

 

[Boogie711]

Genesis - guess what buddy - the entire world is not one giant conspiracy theory.

I know this is going to come as a shock to you. I know you won't believe me, and are just as likely to launch into a 6 paragraph rebuttal, but let me just take this short and sweet - the entire world is not one giant ongoing conspiracy theory. Chill out, dude.

And while you may not have directly accused Halcyon of trying to bankrupt IDI, I sure as heck insinuated it from reading your posts. Heck - you were just pontificating on the consumer backlash from DIR divers about killing Turtle fins! That's a hefty insinuation, don't you think???

Whatever. I give up. It's like trying to preach to the wall sometimes. There is a legal system. If the suit is without merit, it will fail. Let's leave all the pontificating until then, shall we?

Sheesh.

 

[rjchandler]

Halcyon is obviously going to rely on the patents at least as a licensee so they are involed in some way.

The patents involve more than keel weights and BCs. It involves all manner of in water flotation devices. It looks like they patented their Multifunction Compensator (or whatever they call it) as one application. This would include the method of attaching thr keel weights to the cylinder, the design of the wing with a the air cell larger behind the neck, and the life raft and all the other stuff attached by a pouch. they also claim to be extensions of preexisting patents held by Courtney dating back to 1986.

The above is based on ONE reading of the links OBG posted with eyes severely glazing over.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Jeez, this is a heated debate. Everytime I hit refresh there are new posts ... .

I was at DEMA and heard of the rumor that Halcyon served atendees. And as it turns out they were just rumors.

Quite frankly I find it highly objectionable and legally questionable that either Halcyon or JJ gets slammed here for a lawsuit filed by another party.
If I were JJ or in any way associated with ownership in Halcyon I'd be p!ss!ng bricks by now ... . Calling for a boycott based on that suit is somewhere between unreasonable and stupid.

Patents were granted to Carmichael and Courney. Not JJ. Not Halcyon. Not EE, GUE or WKPP. I realize that whenever any of those abreviations, names or DIR or GI3 are mentioned two exteme sides are quickly formed and the flame throwing starts. But why here, other than the thread's title?

Jeggles (who started the thread with his 1st post on the board!?) obviously was fairly clueless about the nature of the suit, the people and business entities involved, and just repeated a rumor he picked up somewhere else.

Now with a copy of the suit floating around and a list of plaintiff and defendents posted, as well as the links to corporations and their officers both JJ and Halcyon should be out of the debate. The only connection between JJ, Halcyon and the lawsuit is the fact that Carmichael holds a postion on the board of GUE. A training agency which did not bring the suit (or, as a legal person, has any involvement with the patents that I can see).

So maybe it's time for some of you to cool it (if you need further help try cool aid ) and make an honest approach to think straight.
Stop slamming the guy and his company for something that's not his doing !

Finally, for the record, I own neither Halcyon equipment nor any shares in the company. I'm not on JJ's christmas list either.
I'm concerned about the lawsuit, and the damage or financial hardship they may cause some of the defendents. I own and use equipment made by three of them, DiveRite, Oxycheq and Deep Outdoors. I like all of it, in DiveRite's case also the excellent customer service, in Duffy's all the help he has provided over the years to RB divers. So yes, I'm very unhappy about them being named defendents. But why let it out on JJ and/or Halcyon?

Dude, wake up and smell the coffee. If you cant see the connection between JJ and Carmichael, you must be blind. It is a widely known fact that Carmicheal has some connection, or even part ownership in Halcyon. Dating back to the beginnings of Brownies.

In some way or another Halcyon is connected to this. JJ is not as innocent as you make think in all of this...

 

[caveseeker7]

California IS NOT the United States....

FYI, California became the 31st state on September 9, 1850.
Just in case you really didn't know ... .

If you can't see the nepotism in the whole organization you must be blind.

Ben, I didn't say there wasn't any nepotism. I don't know if JJ knew about it beforehand or if he condones it. Maybe you should ask him.
Halcyon isn't named as a defendat, but neither are Scubapro, Aqualung nor Mares. Does the nepotism extend to them, too? Genesis, are they part of the conspiracy? Do they also deserve to be boykotted?

I'm neither blind (you think I have some one reading threads to me and the dictate post?), nor do I lack imagination. I just pointed to some of the facts, including those you provided (thanks for that, btw) and reminded people that "even" JJ and Halcyon deserve some fairness.

On the merits of the case I can't and won't comment as my legal knowledge doesn't go remotely far enough. However I do remember a bit about people being not guily until found so in a court of law. To me, that goes both ways, the defendants in the legal case, as well as the defendants in the public opinion. So far no one has shown actual proof of JJ's or Halcyon's involvement.

Dude, wake up and smell the coffee. If you cant see the connection between JJ and Carmichael, you must be blind. It is a widely known fact that Carmicheal has some connection, or even part ownership in Halcyon. Dating back to the beginnings of Brownies.

In some way or another Halcyon is connected to this. JJ is not as innocent as you make think in all of this...

I'm up, smelled the coffe and had two cups. It is a widely known and In some way or another just don't cut it for me when judging peole or asking for/joyning a boykott. JJ might not be as guilty as you may think he is.

 

[Genesis]

The court of public opinion is not held to the same standards as the court of law.

Nor should it be.

A lot of things that are not actionable (or criminal) in the legal sense are nonetheless distasteful, and the consuming public have every right to pass judgement on those actions.

If I had a person working for me who was doing something ethically bankrupt in a potential customer's opinion, that person would be within their rights to refuse to do business with me on that basis. Once I become aware of it as the owner of a corporation it is my decision whether or not to continue onward with my associations - including those of my staff - or sever them.

You have an absolute right to associate with whoever you wish. I have an equivalent right not to associate. That includes but certainly is not limited to the expenditure of money in my wallet.

I am free to draw any associations that I wish as a consumer. Those who wish to distance themselves from the actions of their associates are free to do so by severing those connections in a publically-visible manner. Witness what happened to Janet Jackson here in the last few days for exactly how organizations can - and sometimes do - distance themselves from "associates" who step over the line.

 

[chrpai]

Speaking of nepotism and the supposed seperation of Halcyon and GUE, and the supposed notion of "you don't have to own Halcyon gear to be DIR" and the supposed notion that GUE instructors are vendor independant.....

Guess who posted this once:

Originally Posted by (Guess Who)

It seems as though our friends at OMS finally figured out that what they
were offering was ridiculous so rather then come up with their own ideas
their attempting to steal the DIR system..


To me this is laughable to announce that the only way they could compete is
to steal from their competitor and then announce that they are now
attempting to mirror what Halcyon does.. I guess we can assume that even the
management at OMS doesn't believe in their own products...

I always knew it was B.S.... then first we had Halcyon applying for the DIR trademark and now we have applying for patents and legal action against the rest of the industry.

 

[rjchandler]

i don't think there is a question of "guilt" here. If you have a license to use a patent you expect the owner to defend its patent. And I think they are after a bigger market than the scuba industry.