a better question would be... "What isn't wrong with that picture?"
What do you find unbelievable?
Can someone explain to me what the h*ll this is about??
- Thread starter detroit diver
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a better question would be... "What isn't wrong with that picture?"
What do you find unbelievable?
The unblievable comment was the title of what I originally was going to post.....to avoid the cycle of this board as far as bickering goes...I deleted it, but forgot to change my post title.
When shooting video, if their is a nice sandy area for me lie down on or kneel on..I'm all over it..if it helps me get the shot I want...is that wrong?
If their is a nice area to plant your class on to go over skills...why not use it?
Mike, you've been to Haigh....there are platforms all over the place..it is just easier to conduct classes on firm ground. I dont think it has to do with lack of bouyancy skills.
When shooting video, if their is a nice sandy area for me lie down on or kneel on..I'm all over it..if it helps me get the shot I want...is that wrong?
If their is a nice area to plant your class on to go over skills...why not use it?
Mike, you've been to Haigh....there are platforms all over the place..it is just easier to conduct classes on firm ground. I dont think it has to do with lack of bouyancy skills.
DSJ
Guest
To put things in perspective I certified about 25 years ago. My instructor at the time was very concerned that we learn the basics, but back then they might have been a bit different. We did demo skills on the bottom. After diving a bit for a couple years I drifted out of the sport. My original instructor did go to greater lengths in our training. He gave extra pool time to those folks needing it, and in the OW took us out INTO the quarry (Salsbury, no longer active) instead of hanging around the enterance as most every other class did at the time. He was shop independent and cared that we learned what he thought we needed to know. Does anyone here know if instructors were teaching horizontal demo's of skills back then?
When I wanted to get back in I took a refresher and then an "advanced bouyancy" class. As stated earlier, the latter wasn't all it could have been. I asked MikeF for trim help and he did quite well in that. He didn't train me OW, so he gets no blame for any of my other deficits. Through this board, however, I am at least aware of a few things I need to work on to consider myself basicaly competent.
David
When I wanted to get back in I took a refresher and then an "advanced bouyancy" class. As stated earlier, the latter wasn't all it could have been. I asked MikeF for trim help and he did quite well in that. He didn't train me OW, so he gets no blame for any of my other deficits. Through this board, however, I am at least aware of a few things I need to work on to consider myself basicaly competent.
David
People who are overly anal about diving skills are really detrimental to the sport. Some of you are really anal people. I get this feeling while your in the water that you criticize other divers bouyancy/trim and whatever else you feel is not up to your standards.
When reading these posts, can you people really suck the fun out of this sport or what? Please forgive us divers whose skills don't live up your standards.
geez, some people's children.
When reading these posts, can you people really suck the fun out of this sport or what? Please forgive us divers whose skills don't live up your standards.
geez, some people's children.
I don't know but they often use tripods for the same reason.
This is a big issue with me. The fact is I can't think of a situation where practicing a skill while planted on the bottom serves a useful purpose. Just because you can breath a free flow or share air easily planted on a platform is absolutely no indication of what will happen when you do it midwater. Practice off the bottom. It isn't the skill that takes practice, it's diving and doing the skill at the same time. That's what needs to be practiced and without learning to do both you're not doing anything.
Oh, it's way easier. It just isn't productive. I have students do some skills over a platform. That way if a mistake is made we don't silt out the quarry. We never do them while planted on the platform. Teaching with students planted on the bottom is just a way to avoid having to teach them to dive. It's not that it has to do with the lack of buoyancy skills but rather it's the cause of the lack of buoyancy skill.
jepuskar once bubbled...
People who are overly anal about diving skills are really detrimental to the sport. Some of you are really anal people. I get this feeling while your in the water that you criticize other divers bouyancy/trim and whatever else you feel is not up to your standards.
What I see a a detriment to the sport is the fact that we give away cards to sell equipment and fill resorts. If you want to define "the sport" as the industry as it is today, I mean to be detrimental. In fact, I would like to shake it loose at it's very core. You know, in order to become an instructor I had to agree not to paint the agency in a bad light. I should have had them sign a similar agreement because the crap that's being passed off as training and diving is a personal embarrassment to me. And your right we critiize the skills of others because after their in the water for a few minutes we can't see. Their ruining it for us as well as themselves. I don't just critisize though, I offer to help.
Read above (I think it was in this thread, maybe it was the one about diving with DIR budies) where I described the divers that crashed my class at Haigh last week. They weren't having fun. In fact they looked scared to death. they were strugling every step of the way while my students (not yet certified) hovered above them effortlessly while I tried to decide whether or not I was going to have to rescue them.
Who is it that's sucking the fun out of diving, me or the non-diving instructor who turned those folks loose without the skills needed to enjoy diving?
BTW, we'll be at Haigh this weekend. I have drysuit students on Sat. and nitrox students on Sun. Stop on up if you can.
I usually don't get in the water til early afternoon. the big shops that really mess the place up start early and leave early. I try to wait til their slop starts to settle before subjecting my students to it. It's hard to teach when you can't see your students.
DSJ
Guest
I'd say doing skills while planted on the bottom does not prepare one for doing them mid-water while trying to maintain proper bouyancy.
I see this sort of thing all the time in karate class. New students learn to block or punch standing in one place, and they do alright. Start them moving up and down the floor while performing the same movements and either the footwork or the hands fall apart depending on which one they are concentrating on. Happened to me yesterday in fencing class. It's a matter of task loading.
When do you figure you will end up with a need to use the skill? In mid-water, or when you are sitting on the platform? Learning to divide one's attention between the emergency (free flow) and the task of bouyancy control needs to be practiced. In flight training it is drilled into you to "First, fly the plane". The analogy I see is that when a problem such as a free-flow happens it suddenly consumes the victims full attention and they forget to control their dive resulting in a drop to the bottom or a rocket ascent. You might start learning on the bottom, but you need to practice walking and chewing gum before you really know your stuff.
Now I don't know at what point one should practice mid-water free-flows, but I know I didn't get it in my "SSI Advanced OW" class. When would you say something like this should be practiced?
David
I see this sort of thing all the time in karate class. New students learn to block or punch standing in one place, and they do alright. Start them moving up and down the floor while performing the same movements and either the footwork or the hands fall apart depending on which one they are concentrating on. Happened to me yesterday in fencing class. It's a matter of task loading.
When do you figure you will end up with a need to use the skill? In mid-water, or when you are sitting on the platform? Learning to divide one's attention between the emergency (free flow) and the task of bouyancy control needs to be practiced. In flight training it is drilled into you to "First, fly the plane". The analogy I see is that when a problem such as a free-flow happens it suddenly consumes the victims full attention and they forget to control their dive resulting in a drop to the bottom or a rocket ascent. You might start learning on the bottom, but you need to practice walking and chewing gum before you really know your stuff.
Now I don't know at what point one should practice mid-water free-flows, but I know I didn't get it in my "SSI Advanced OW" class. When would you say something like this should be practiced?
David
Ohh I'll be Haigh this Saturday and possibly Sunday.
Hopefully I'll be in a better mood then because I'll purposely silt up the bottom right in front of you to PEE you off...lolol
Look for a guy with a bright yellow video housing...that will be me.
Hopefully I'll be in a better mood then because I'll purposely silt up the bottom right in front of you to PEE you off...lolol
Look for a guy with a bright yellow video housing...that will be me.
Natasha
Contributor
Hi Jep:
I could send you a PM saying, " That wasn't an acceptable post." But, maybe if I just write it here, and ask why, you would feel it necessary to write such a thing, we can all learn more about you.
Thanks for your time.
I could send you a PM saying, " That wasn't an acceptable post." But, maybe if I just write it here, and ask why, you would feel it necessary to write such a thing, we can all learn more about you.
Thanks for your time.
There is a time in a diver's training when he needs to be able to concentrate on a single task, to master it - and then combine it with others to become "the compleat diver." I agree that we should be training divers to be able to handle emergencies and to perform basic skills while maintaining reasonably good buoyancy control - but - planting them on the bottom is an excellent way to create the building blocks from which to construct that "compleat diver." Rather than "a way to avoid having to teach them to dive" it is an efficient way to get mastery of individual component skills that make up the overall skilled diver.
Rick
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