Question Is AOW a waste of time?

[Whoosier]

(I know my post history makes me look like a tire-kicker, please be assured it's because of poverty)

Let's say my friend has $500 burning a hole in his pocket. He got a Peregrine for Christmas, and recently sat through an EANx class.
Let's also assume that my friend's ultimate goals are MOD3 CCR/Full Cave and cold, deep, dark, scary wrecks from history books.
My understanding that the best bang for the buck for someone so economically challenged is to become BFF's with a local tec diver who has lots of spare gear and patience, who would teach him to dive a drysuit, bp/w, long hose, doubles, shoot a dsmb/bag, perfect buoyancy and trim, kicks and turns. He would then sign up for GUE-F or UTD-E, get a tec pass, take Tech 1 and OHP/Cave 1, then buy a CCR for everything else.
Now, my friend knows that at this second, taking Fundies would be a waste of time because he has never dove doubles or a drysuit in his life, and would be out $2,000 and a lot of embarassment.
The traditional pathway of OWD->AOW->EANx->ITT->AN/DP->TMx becomes appealing in that it's smaller bites both psychologically and financially; but when looking at course prerequisites for classes like AN/DP and Apprentice Cave, the trend appears that (whether for insurance or standardization purposes) many instructors want specialties like Deep, Rescue, and most of all AOW.
It makes sense, for example, nonpenetrative Wreck is a waste of time if you are going to have Cavern or better before taking Advanced Wreck. It makes sense not to take Deep if you are going to take AN/DP. It makes sense not to take Mod1/Air Dil if you will have AN/DP/TMx and can go straight to Mod2/Helitrox Deco Dil.
I understand PADI exists to sell classes to vacation divers. I can live without the prestige of being a fish identification mermaid diver. The attitude of AOW being the "course buffet" does not do much to help sell it.

With the expectation of future technical courses, what will he learn in AOW that he could not practice on his own, or that will not be covered in greater detail in future courses?

I figure his options are:
1. Put the cash in an S&P500 Index Fund and buy a clapped out CCR in ten years
2. Put it towards a Drysuit (most likely a SeaSkin) and associated class
3. Take AOW and annoy the instructor
4. Put it towards a BP/W, set of regs, or SMB/Spool/Lights

That’s a great question, I went the AOW route because I wanted to take small bites . I get task overloaded easily. It took about two years to complete my AOW ( financial and location challenges ) if I had to do it all over again I would still take that route. Things can build up rapidly when there are a lot of moving parts. I still practice my drills and go over the drills I had back then. I remind myself it’s not just about the certification it’s about can I apply what I have learned in addition to the skills I already know. I hope this helps and you and your friends have a great time diving !!!!

 

[crofrog]

Now, my friend knows that at this second, taking Fundies would be a waste of time because he has never dove doubles or a drysuit in his life, and would be out $2,000 and a lot of embarassment.

Fundies is about 900 bucks, and getting a tech upgrade is about 250.

You take training to learn skills not certifications, you shouldn't worry about being "embarrassed" in training, that's why you're training. Set the ego aside, and "Commit to excellence"

My wife did fundies with it being her first time in a drysuit and doubles. She got a provisional, and I got a rec pass, we went home and practiced what we were taught and earned our tech upgrades.

We're both C1 now and working towards T1.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

(I know my post history makes me look like a tire-kicker, please be assured it's because of poverty)

Let's say my friend has $500 burning a hole in his pocket. He got a Peregrine for Christmas, and recently sat through an EANx class.
Let's also assume that my friend's ultimate goals are MOD3 CCR/Full Cave and cold, deep, dark, scary wrecks from history books.
My understanding that the best bang for the buck for someone so economically challenged is to become BFF's with a local tec diver who has lots of spare gear and patience, who would teach him to dive a drysuit, bp/w, long hose, doubles, shoot a dsmb/bag, perfect buoyancy and trim, kicks and turns. He would then sign up for GUE-F or UTD-E, get a tec pass, take Tech 1 and OHP/Cave 1, then buy a CCR for everything else.
Now, my friend knows that at this second, taking Fundies would be a waste of time because he has never dove doubles or a drysuit in his life, and would be out $2,000 and a lot of embarassment.
The traditional pathway of OWD->AOW->EANx->ITT->AN/DP->TMx becomes appealing in that it's smaller bites both psychologically and financially; but when looking at course prerequisites for classes like AN/DP and Apprentice Cave, the trend appears that (whether for insurance or standardization purposes) many instructors want specialties like Deep, Rescue, and most of all AOW.
It makes sense, for example, nonpenetrative Wreck is a waste of time if you are going to have Cavern or better before taking Advanced Wreck. It makes sense not to take Deep if you are going to take AN/DP. It makes sense not to take Mod1/Air Dil if you will have AN/DP/TMx and can go straight to Mod2/Helitrox Deco Dil.
I understand PADI exists to sell classes to vacation divers. I can live without the prestige of being a fish identification mermaid diver. The attitude of AOW being the "course buffet" does not do much to help sell it.

With the expectation of future technical courses, what will he learn in AOW that he could not practice on his own, or that will not be covered in greater detail in future courses?

I figure his options are:
1. Put the cash in an S&P500 Index Fund and buy a clapped out CCR in ten years
2. Put it towards a Drysuit (most likely a SeaSkin) and associated class
3. Take AOW and annoy the instructor
4. Put it towards a BP/W, set of regs, or SMB/Spool/Lights

Option 3 would be guaranteed to piss off the instructor and get thrown out of class with no cert and no refund. That's what was spelled out in my learning agreement.
I also used to check with tech students past instructors and if I knew a student was going from one of my classes to another that taught something I did not or at a higher level, I often called that instructor to let them know how the student was and what to expect.

 

[onepointfivethumbs]

Thanks all for the great takeaways.

So far I have:

-Stop being poor
-Dive more
-Buy a drysuit and dive it a lot
-Don't you dare ask questions about rebreathers and its corollary, you can never aspire to tec-CCR if you're presently poor
-Take AOW (and dive more)
-Buy good gear, but not if you're poor
-Dive more, you peasant

In all seriousness there were some good pearls in there, I genuinely try to avoid succumbing to Dunning-Kruger, I know that it is a long and expensive road and much of it "you don't know what you don't know" but I do want to make the most earnest effort I can.

 

[lostsheep]

You think you’re the first poor punk kid that wanted to dive?

I wasn’t even old enough to get a youth work permit when I started and yet I made it work.

Consider freediving, it’s in your price range and it teaches invaluable skills and comfort.

 

[aquaregia]

The real value of AOW is getting a survey of different kinds of diving situations and an introduction to handle them. OW is just the bare minimum skills needed to survive the activity, most OW graduates are not comfortable diving on their own without a DM initially. Depending on the agency and curriculum, you'll get some hand holding through night dives (which freak a lot of people out), deep dives (which should freak a lot of people out), surf entries, boat logistics, complex navigation, etc, as well as a bunch more oversight for your site surveys and buddy checks. It's a class worth doing.

This is why it's also a prerequisite for many other classes. Certainly, there are other ways, and better ways. to build up experience than through classes, but prerequisites give students an idea of what they're getting into. It's hard to understand what's involved in taking a tech class if you haven't discussed the impacts of choosing different breathing gasses, or really experienced what happens to your gas consumption and NDLs by going to 4-5 atmospheres.

Regarding gear: regulators, fins, BCs, wetsuits, etc usually don't catastrophically break and can usually be affordably serviced if you buy second hand. Drysuits, on the other hand, can be a huge money sink if you aren't sure what you're looking at on a used suit. Have someone who knows what they're doing evaluate any drysuit you're looking at buying second hand. For the other stuff, "buy nice or buy twice" is a lovely theory, but if you're hard up it's not necessarily helpful. A cheap $10 BC to keep you out of the rental game will help you save the money you need for a used BPW.

"Beginning with the end in mind" means to avoid sidetracks, not to skip steps that are on the path. If you see yourself going towards cave, don't screw around with split fins. If you expect to follow the CCR route, consider carefully how far down the OC route you want to go. I don't see AOW as a sidetrack for any of your listed goals.

 

[rjack321]

Thanks all for the great takeaways.

So far I have:

-Don't you dare ask questions about rebreathers and its corollary, you can never aspire to tec-CCR if you're presently poor

You're just wasting everyone's time (including your own) if you can't afford to dive now, right out of OW, not even a dozen dives outside of class, but somehow you're magically going to be a tech diving helium breathin' machine in a CCR "someday". By the time your someday rolls around who knows what kinds of CCRs will even be made. Could I have predicted a flood of chest mounted units on the 2024 market a mere 5 years ago? Heck no.

 

[J-Vo]

Skip the certs and gear.

Spend your $500 to have James Mott give you two days in the pool. Now you no how to practice.

Then dive as much as you can while saving for the gear and training that will lead to your goals.

PS: Anytime anyone from UTD says anything about deco theory, put ear muffs on.

 

[ofg-1]

AOW is not a waste of time. On the other hand, AOL probably is.

 

[nadwidny]

Fundies is about 900 bucks, and getting a tech upgrade is about 250

At $900 I'm going to assume that includes the hooker and blow.