If you were to redo the scuba industry how would you do it?

[MidOH]

If you make it too complicated then people will just take a resort course so there can dive once a year. We have been trying for 50 years to figure this out. When you have a person who wants to dive forever then they will go thru whatever courses are required. It seems that for some people the resort course lights a fire to follow thru on more instruction etc. And yes swimming ability to some extent is required as the YMCA courses emphasized .

Sounds like a new class:
"Resort, travel, warm water diver."

Then make OW a harder 2nd class.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Sounds like a new class:
"Resort, travel, warm water diver."

Then make OW a harder 2nd class.

I would probably call it “Intro to Scuba” for
resort type diving w/ divemaster. Just teach them enough basic knowledge so they don’t die. You couldn’t get air fills with it or get on a dive boat without a DM guide, but it would be more than “try scuba”.
And then if and when they really want to learn, they go through “OW Scuba Diver”, which would be a little beyond what OW is now. I would include some rescue work. To me some basic rescue knowledge is missing from OW now. If they are certifying two freshly certified OW divers to able to plan and conduct a dive on their own similar to the conditions they were trained in then they should be able to rescue each other if something went wrong. Peak performance buoyancy would also be included because without that they are a mess.
Basic nav would also be included, don’t get lost!

 

[Justin Phillips]

I would implement a rule that one of your dive buddies had to be a shark with lasers!

 

[runsongas]

@MidOH that is what the PADI scuba diver certification is supposed to be (and any other program that is ISO level 1, open water and equivalent is ISO level 2). You are trained to be guided at all times and to a recommended depth limit of 40 feet. it roughly is half the requirements of OW diver.

 

[Lorenzoid]

@MidOH that is what the PADI scuba diver certification is supposed to be (and any other program that is ISO level 1, open water and equivalent is ISO level 2). You are trained to be guided at all times and to a recommended depth limit of 40 feet. it roughly is half the requirements of OW diver.

Maybe if the agency were to increase the depth limit of the Scuba Diver certification (PADI or equivalent offering from other agencies) to 60 feet, and market it more extensively, we would see more people taking that option and remaining content with it long term. There are a lot of people who only dive on cruises, for example, and maybe do just a couple of dives a year. I think the 40-foot limitation is a bit restrictive, though. PADI doesn't really seem to market the Scuba Diver certification the way they do the Open Water Diver certification, and dive operators probably don't see a lot of Scuba Diver cards from their customers. But it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI doesn't really seem to market the Scuba Diver certification the way they do the Open Water Diver certification, and dive operators probably don't see a lot of Scuba Diver cards from their customers. But it doesn't have to be that way.

It is not much harder to get the full OW certification compared to the scuba certification. I have only seen it given in special cases of people who for some reason or other could not get the full certification. A prime example is the student (in a class I assisted) whose autism was such that after several sessions, the instructor was convinced he should never dive without supervision.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@MidOH that is what the PADI scuba diver certification is supposed to be (and any other program that is ISO level 1, open water and equivalent is ISO level 2). You are trained to be guided at all times and to a recommended depth limit of 40 feet. it roughly is half the requirements of OW diver.

A dive center owner said even if the customer doesn't meet OW standards, he still certifies them as such so "they don't feel bad." I guess that he is okay based on the assumption that his customers will typically dive at the scuba diver level, always following a guide (though probably going beyond 40 feet).

 

[drrich2]

the assumption that his customers will typically dive at the scuba diver level, always following a guide (though probably going beyond 40 feet).

You just pointed out a serious barrier to more widespread use of the PADI Scuba Diver certification (and I'm guessing similar from other agencies?) - in the 'real world,' 40-feet is seldom the max. depth on guide-led dives.

This comes up occasionally in threads where someone has a child with a Junior OW certification and intends to adhere to the 40-foot max. depth recommendation. Suddenly, dive destination options get sparse - perhaps Key Largo and St. Thomas come to mind? Bonaire if you shore dive?

We already see threads where some dive op.s want AOW so the cert. officially specifies the depth range they take divers on, and some OW divers get AOW just in case they run into such a requirement.

 

[MrVegas]

I hesitate to add more to this thread, but what the heck. As a consumer (rather than as a provider) of diving, the thoughts below may be fantasy, but here goes:

1. The basic Open Water certification should have a recommended depth of 100 feet and include training that enables diving with Nitrox. I personally don't think it needs to be any longer or more difficult -- with one exception. I agree that the swim test is pretty minimal. I would add maybe one item: the ability to swim half a pool length under water with no mask, goggles, or fins. I think that would weed out many of those who should really be getting swim lessons before they get a diving certification. I think PADI and the other agencies have made themselves and the dive industry victims of their own success in creating an extreme multi-step certification process that then creates de facto legal standards for what is "safe" that, in turn, creates issues with liability and insurance.
2. The Advanced Open Water certification should have a recommended depth limit of 130 feet and actually teach people things they might use as an "advanced" diver. For example, how to deploy a marker and use a reel, how to sling and switch to a pony, where to carry extra items on their rigs (knives, reals, markers, etc.), and basic gas planning.
3. Advocate that diving gear manufacturers (especially of regulators) make manuals and part specifications available with their products to end the "grand mystery" of regulator service and parts availability.
4. Advocate for laws that make liability waivers more clearly enforceable. If a dive operator makes clear that they are only providing a ride to the dive site, should it be the operator's fault that someone jumps in the water without adequate preparation?
5. Make diving around the country a little more like diving in Florida or the Caribbean by making rentals more available on site so that people don't have to worry so much about unloading, rinsing, or drying gear when they get home. Maybe that's not practical in non-vacation areas, but, as someone in another thread put it, dealing with gear after the dive is a hassle.
6. Be more cautious about advertising diving as a "fun for the whole family activity." It can be -- if the family are good in the water to begin with. However, part of the initial attraction many years ago is that it was cool, and even seen as dangerous -- a little bit of James Bond, if you will. That is long gone, but the truth of the matter is that there are inherent dangers to being underwater and under pressure and the industry should not minimize those.

Long rant over. At the end of the day, the success of the dive "industry" will be driven by the number of people who want to dive.

 

[rmssetc]

Drivers licenses and DMV come to mind.
Can you imagine what it would be like on the streets and the freeway if getting a drivers license could be done the way the current scuba certification system is set up!
It’s bad enough as it is!

Um, for some classifications (motorcycle) and some US states (Pennsylvania), some private classes are blessed by the state...take the training, pass, get your motorcycle endorsement. No DMV needed.

Oh, and those riders are generally far better than the self-taught folks who pass the DMV test.