Fins and manoeuvrability

[scubadada]

Yeah, another equipment solution to a skills problem. Nevertheless, to what extent manoeuvrability and precision depends on the model (size, form) of the fins? Can anyone compare, let's say, Holiis F1 "Bat" fins and the Apeks RK3 fins from this perspective?

Six days, 120 posts, you'd think the topic was something controversial, like Spare Air

 

[lowviz]

... if divers actually became interested in the performance differences between fins...

OK, I'm game. Let's do this.

What would you pair with a wetsuit and Freedom Plate rig? Minimalist, built for streamlined efficiency. Moderate speed, endurance.

Pick something I can actually pay for and get in a reasonable time.

Not being a wiseguy, I'm serious.

 

[RJP]

Atomic sells fins that cost $260.

If the FF TD fins are that good, why wouldn't they sell in the thousands? it seems like the business case would easily support the investment to mass produce them.

The first input for any business case would be a demand forecast model (based on quantitative market research) clearly demonstrating that the marketplace has a pent-up demand for TD Force Fins and will easily absorb the increased volume that mass production can turn out.

[/business case]

 

[danvolker]

OK, I'm game. Let's do this.

What would you pair with a wetsuit and Freedom Plate rig? Minimalist, built for streamlined efficiency. Moderate speed, endurance.

Pick something I can actually pay for and get in a reasonable time.

Not being a wiseguy, I'm serious.

Probably something like these.... Amazon.com: Cressi Gara Modular Fins Black, Size - 5-6

They are new....I used plenty of the old cressi freediving fins....which were ok until I discovered carbon fiber and composites
But this new Cressi is supposed to be very good....even without carbon. And they do have a carbon fiber version as well....for around $300, so you won't be going that route.
The only question as to this direction, is whether you need to do technical penetrations....if so, the freedive fins are not the ideal solution--though they can be managed well for wide open penetrations without low ceilings.
I have not tried this particular new model yet, so I don't know how well they frog kick....some freedive fins frog kick so well it blows your mind...like the DiveR's...some, like the Mustang C4 carbons, with rails on the edge of the blades, are designed to track for flutter kick, and don't make the sliding motion for frog kick particularly easy/effective.

I will probably get a pair just to try and to have....I am even toying with the idea of getting one pair of each really significant fin , and then suggesting SB members come out and try free demos of these fins whenever they want.
I already have a pretty good head start, to a big stable like this


** Makos are also a freedive fin brand most divers I know using them, speak very highly of....This is one of the brands I need to buy a pair of, so that I can have it for demos....or to use from my Golf bag of fins, for having just the right club for the shot

 

[RJP]

Good shops SHOULD CARRY DEMO FINS.

Good manufacturers should provide demos to the shops. (The ski manufacturers provide demos to shops... they don't purchase them.)

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

If you are looking for freedive type fins, check out my site. We offer a full range of models with respect to price, materials and also foootpocket sizes. We have an excellent adult size fin for less than $70. Our most expensive, top of the line carbon fin is less than $250.

 

[danvolker]

Good manufacturers should provide demos to the shops. (The ski manufacturers provide demos to shops... they don't purchase them.)

Totally agree....I'm thinking that if "many" shops went to the DEMA Show, and began pushing the mfg.'s hard that their customers were "demanding" demo fins, a new DEMO plan would be rolled out by many of the mfg.'s.
Snow skiing...Mountain Biking....even in buying a new car you get to test drive it first!

 

[RJP]

Totally agree....I'm thinking that if "many" shops went to the DEMA Show, and began pushing the mfg.'s hard that their customers were "demanding" demo fins, a new DEMO plan would be rolled out by many of the mfg.'s.
Snow skiing...Mountain Biking....even in buying a new car you get to test drive it first!

Ah, but there's a problem with the idea... and the manufacturers might know this.

Sneaky marketing insider information: Demos are often a bad idea, particularly for premium-priced products, and in many cases hurt sales and brand perception. You see, people who have spent $400 on fins are FAR more likely to "feel" $400 worth of difference than people who haven't yet opened their wallet.

Right now you've got a situation where the only people that can speak of the virtue of such fins are those that are financially - and emotionally - invested in them. They will disproportionately skew more positive than negative because of a psychological self-preservation mechanism. (This is not just about $400 fins, but about anything with a high potential for buyers remorse.) If demo pairs of $400 fins were widely available, for every one owner's voice touting them as being great... there would be a thousand voices saying "I tried them and couldn't tell what the big deal was."

From a marketing communications standpoint it's far better to have one person telling the other thousand "I use them and they are great... and you can't question their greatness because you've never tried them."

 

[Freewillow]

Probably something like these.... Amazon.com: Cressi Gara Modular Fins Black, Size - 5-6

They are new....I used plenty of the old cressi freediving fins....which were ok until I discovered carbon fiber and composites
But this new Cressi is supposed to be very good....even without carbon. And they do have a carbon fiber version as well....for around $300, so you won't be going that route.
The only question as to this direction, is whether you need to do technical penetrations....if so, the freedive fins are not the ideal solution--though they can be managed well for wide open penetrations without low ceilings.
I have not tried this particular new model yet, so I don't know how well they frog kick....some freedive fins frog kick so well it blows your mind...like the DiveR's...some, like the Mustang C4 carbons, with rails on the edge of the blades, are designed to track for flutter kick, and don't make the sliding motion for frog kick particularly easy/effective.

I will probably get a pair just to try and to have....I am even toying with the idea of getting one pair of each really significant fin , and then suggesting SB members come out and try free demos of these fins whenever they want.
I already have a pretty good head start, to a big stable like this


** Makos are also a freedive fin brand most divers I know using them, speak very highly of....This is one of the brands I need to buy a pair of, so that I can have it for demos....or to use from my Golf bag of fins, for having just the right club for the shot

Thanks for the names. Dive R is Dive rite, I guess, but what model? Which ones of the finns would you take for frog kick. I have a pair of Mares avanti quattro since 20 years and they make me "frog kick" rather ineficiently. Most tekies around be use very negatively buyant rubber finns. Any advise is welcome. Please be aware that I live in Europe. Thanks

 

[danvolker]

Thanks for the names. Dive R is Dive rite, I guess, but what model? Which ones of the finns would you take for frog kick. I have a pair of Mares avanti quattro since 20 years and they make me "frog kick" rather ineficiently. Most tekies around be use very negatively buyant rubber finns. Any advise is welcome. Please be aware that I live in Europe. Thanks

sorry....DiveR see them on this site... There has been an error processing your request Best used with Riffe open heel Silent Hunter Foot Pockets.... http://www.flfreedivers.com is another good source, and they will mount any foot pocket you choose, to the blades you choose.

With my DiveR's, I can make a huge kick with close to ten foot glide, and keep my heart rate around 60beat per minute, while Jetfin wearing divers either could not keep up, or would be running at closer to 120 bpm heart rates....so obviously I get more time to stop and hover/hang , or just really long glides till I completely stop.

I am going to try the new Cressi modular soon...and will try to get my hands on the hot carbon fiber Mako fins....and I will report on them, as to how they perform for efficiency in dolphin/flutter, and for frog kick and for reverse kick.