Question Experiences with Apeks XL4 Ocea vs Atomic Z3?

[soarManu]

Hi everybody,

I would like to finally buy my own equipment after years of diving - yeah!
Computer and ABC equipment I already have, so now regulator and jacket are pending. I like diving in local lakes, so having a cold water regulator is important to me, but it should also be good for traveling.

I have so far narrowed down my research to the following two sets. I wanted to ask who of you uses (one of) the models, what are your experiences? Following are the pros and cons I see:

Apeks XL4 (Ocea).
+ Apeks has a great reputation
+ the reg is compact and light for travel
+ I like the design very much
+ I found it for a good price (550 Euro for 1st & 2nd stage incl. octopus).
- Annual maintenance compared to other models (2 years for Scubapro models and Atomic)
- I read somewhere that the small size of the 2nd stage could imply a lower breathing comfort and might be disadvantageous for future dry suit diving (?)

There are two versions of the XL4, the original and the new version with sustainable materials which is sold under the name XL4 Ocea, which I am interested in. However, I have heard that with the original XL4 the 2nd stage housing is not very stable. Maybe this is different with the Ocea (?)

Atomic Z3 and Z2

+ 2 years maintenance interval, thereby cost-friendly, although the actual maintenance seems to turn out to be more expensive than other regulators, about 200 euros. Nevertheless, the total cost of Atomic Z3 would therefore likely break even with XL4 after 3 years
- I have heard from a store that the regulator in greater depths in cold water relatively easily free flows, what do you think of this statement?
- high purchase price (700 Euro for 1st & 2nd stage, incl. octopus).

I'm gladly open to further suggestions from you. I was recommended the Scubapro MK19/G260, but frankly I don't like the design at all.

Thanks in advance to the round!
Manu

 

[Nemrod]

I'm gladly open to further suggestions from you. I was recommended the Scubapro MK19/G260, but frankly I don't like the design at all.

Curious, but how so?

One thing, and not to spread doom and gloom because I am certainly not up to speed on the circumstance but Apeks and Aqua Lung parent company is having a bit of a problem and it is my understanding the two are now in the hands of a holding company? Maybe nothing, probably is but nowadays, who knows.

aqualung-apeks-sold-to-barings-investment

What I do know is my two local shops are very frustrated with not being able to get parts or product and I can verify I had to go to an overseas source to get a shutter valve assembly for an AL Core after repeated attempts to order through stores here.

 

[BoltSnap]

Atomic Z3 and Z2

+ 2 years maintenance interval, thereby cost-friendly, although the actual maintenance seems to turn out to be more expensive than other regulators, about 200 euros. Nevertheless, the total cost of Atomic Z3 would therefore likely break even with XL4 after 3 years
- I have heard from a store that the regulator in greater depths in cold water relatively easily free flows, what do you think of this statement?
- high purchase price (700 Euro for 1st & 2nd stage, incl. octopus).

I'd go with Z2 sealed first stage. I wouldn't go with a Z3 myself. The only difference between the Z2 and the Z3 is the proprietary second stage swivel which is grossly overpriced and makes changing LP hoses very expensive.

With sealed first stage, you can go 3 - 4 years between servicing if not more. You will have the most reliable regulator with best performance.

Scubapro MK19/G260

The Atomic breathes better when both are properly tuned in my experience. I have been comparing the two for several months now and came to this conclusion based on actual comparisons underwater over 60 or so dives.

Note that this is "subjective" and varies according to "taste" and experience but you can't go wrong with either.

 

[stuartv]

Even if Aqualung/Apeks were not in financial difficulty, I would still take an Atomic or the ScubaPro Mk19/G260 over AL/Apeks any day. With AL's financial woes, I definitely would not buy their regs.

Like @BoltSnap, I would buy a Z2 over a Z3. The hose length on the Z3 is dumb and I would want to change it. As soon as you take the hose off a Z3, you have a Z2 that is missing a jam nut. Better (and less expensive) to just buy a Z2 from the beginning, so it has the jam nut and you can change the (dumb length) standard hose to a better length more easily. And you haven't wasted the money on a ComfortSwivel that you just took off.

I would prefer the Atomic, but the ScubaPro Mk 19 EVO/G260 would be my 2nd choice, after Atomic. It is also a great reg set. But, I think the Atomic Z2 is better AND less expensive.

 

[Nemrod]

A different take. I would take the G260 over the Atomic. The G260 has a 30% glass fiber reinforced polymer casing that is exceedingly tough and proven so. I have not been able to determine what the Atomic casing is?

The Atomic has AFC, I would much prefer a manual Venturi control of the G260. Simple is always better to me.

The G260 has a full size diaphragm and importantly to some, a hard cover and an actual purge button.

The G260 cover can be removed without tools (remove the lock pin and toss it in your junk drawer never to be seen again) and there is no internal diaphragm retainer to mess with.

The Atomic is an integral soft purge cover, I have seen them pretty ratty and somewhat sticky. And how does it come off?

And why do I need AFC when I have a tension knob and a manual Venturi control?

I would rather the Mark 25 Evo and with the large ambient holes it will be easy to rinse as opposed to some messy grease filled thing with potential for internally trapped seawater. (And I bought a fully sealed Mark 17 Evo and I have come to dislike it and wish I had gotten the Mark 25 Evo)

When we get to this level of regulator performance we are down to personal preference of features, styling, availability. I am sure I could be happy with any of them, maybe.

 

[amado_sarhan]

I've been diving the the XL4 Ocea regs for over 80 dives now. I prefer them for travelling and warm temp. So far, I've enjoyed their simplicity and have absolutely no jaw fatigue. I haven't tried the Atomic. For cold water I dive with my trusty Apeks XTX200, I still can't find a better regulator, for me.

Anyway, no matter what anyone says, this is all a matter of taste and preference.

 

[stuartv]

A different take. I would take the G260 over the Atomic. The G260 has a 30% glass fiber reinforced polymer casing that is exceedingly tough and proven so. I have not been able to determine what the Atomic casing is?

The Atomic has AFC, I would much prefer a manual Venturi control of the G260. Simple is always better to me.

The G260 has a full size diaphragm and importantly to some, a hard cover and an actual purge button.

The G260 cover can be removed without tools (remove the lock pin and toss it in your junk drawer never to be seen again) and there is no internal diaphragm retainer to mess with.

The Atomic is an integral soft purge cover, I have seen them pretty ratty and somewhat sticky. And how does it come off?

And why do I need AFC when I have a tension knob and a manual Venturi control?

I would rather the Mark 25 Evo and with the large ambient holes it will be easy to rinse as opposed to some messy grease filled thing with potential for internally trapped seawater. (And I bought a fully sealed Mark 17 Evo and I have come to dislike it and wish I had gotten the Mark 25 Evo)

When we get to this level of regulator performance we are down to personal preference of features, styling, availability. I am sure I could be happy with any of them, maybe.

It is definitely down to personal preference.

I have both - the G260 and the Z2. Well, I had the Z2. I sold it because my shop was not an Atomic dealer at the time, so I replaced the Z2 with something we sell.

I like the AFC. I don't have to remember to flip the venturi switch and the AFC just works.

The Z2 cover comes off with no tools. I don't know what the reg body is made out of. I haven't broken one yet, but I am fairly careful with my gear.

I have sealed Atomic first stages (had 'em with the Z2 and still have them in my Atomic M1 sets). They are no mess for me. They may be a mess while being serviced, but do I care? (no, I do not) They are not a mess for me and they are sealed, so I don't have to spend as much time rinsing them as I do with my Mk 25 EVO 1st stages. A quick dunk and I can move on. If they eventually get some seawater inside and that eventually creates some corrosion or something inside, again, that is something the service tech will deal with. It doesn't (or has not, yet) create a problem for ME. I've had them for 3 or 4 years now and haven't had any need to have them serviced, yet.

If you don't want a sealed piston, you can spend even less and get the unsealed version of the Z2. Then, it is JUST like the Mk 25 EVO - except less expensive. No "messy grease" inside. Open holes for rinsing. And if you DO buy the unsealed Z2, and later decide you want it to be sealed, it's a simple, straightforward (and not expensive) thing to have your Atomic service tech seal it when they service it.

Bottom line: I own (or did own) both and I prefer the Z2 over the Mk25 EVO/G260. But, they are both great and it really is down to personal preference. However, I absolutely canNOT see paying all the extra money that the Mk 25 EVO/G260 costs ($999) over the Z2 ($570, unsealed, or $600, sealed). (prices in the US) An extra $400 for the ScubaPro is insane (well - so says my wallet).

 

[Nemrod]

Curious to the answers, not an argument.

Does the Atomic first stage sans Spec boot have large oblong/oval ambient holes like the Mark 25 Evo or are they the tiny little pin holes like a Mark 10 with Spec boot?

Does the Atomic have a diaphragm screw in retainer under the soft purge cover, that needs a tool to remove? How about Apeks?

What is the Atomic case made out of ( I am careful also but still a tank got dropped hard on my G250 and it went unscathed)? Same for the Apeks, what is that case made out of, is it plain ABS like other AL products?

The Atomic auto seat saver, does the second stage have to be under pressure to rinse (I usually just pop the cover off my G250/G260 after a day of diving and rinse it out with a hose)? Since the Atomic is a titanium barrel, it presumably can live without rinsing perhaps, salt will still build up however but that is a strong positive.

If this keeps up I will just have to buy an Atomic to see for myself. I want the full titanium one if I buy yet another toy . Just saying, I really, really, do not like soft purge covers and threaded retainers, that alone kicks my ABS brakes on!

 

[stuartv]

Curious to the answers, not an argument.

Totally understood!

Does the Atomic first stage sans Spec boot have large oblong/oval ambient holes like the Mark 25 Evo or are they the tiny little pin holes like a Mark 10 with Spec boot?

I'm not sure, but based on pics I have looked at of the unsealed version, I think they are more like the Mk25 holes. Not pin holes.

Does the Atomic have a diaphragm screw in retainer under the soft purge cover, that needs a tool to remove? How about Apeks?

What is the Atomic case made out of ( I am careful also but still a tank got dropped hard on my G250 and it went unscathed)? Same for the Apeks, what is that case made out of, is it plain ABS like other AL products?

I'm not sure. I changed the purge cover on a Z2, but I don't recall about the diaphragm. That said, I do recall that they have what they call a "cave ring" for the M1. I believe that is supposed to be for the purpose of allowing you to remove the purge cover and diaphragm while underwater if you need to. So, my GUESS is that, if you do need a tool to remove the diaphragm in a Z2, you could probably get the cave ring part for an M1 and put it in a Z2 to eliminate the need for a tool. But, I do not know. Maybe @Geo7 can say.

The Atomic auto seat saver, does the second stage have to be under pressure to rinse (I usually just pop the cover off my G250/G260 after a day of diving and rinse it out with a hose)? Since the Atomic is a titanium barrel, it presumably can live without rinsing perhaps, salt will still build up however but that is a strong positive.

Yes, in theory you are supposed to have pressure when you dunk an Atomic 2nd stage. Also, the Z2 is not a titanium barrel. It is Zirconium. In practice, I have often just given my Atomic 2nd stages a couple of quick dunks, without pressure on them, and gone on my way. No problems yet.

If this keeps up I will just have to buy an Atomic to see for myself. I want the full titanium one if I buy yet another toy . Just saying, I really, really, do not like soft purge covers and threaded retainers, that alone kicks my ABS brakes on!

You are welcome to try mine any time you like, if you want to to come to South Cackalackey. Maybe wait 'til I receive my TFX, so you can try it, too.

 

[BoltSnap]

in theory you are supposed to have pressure when you dunk an Atomic 2nd stage.

Not really, you just have to make sure that the second stage is slightly lower than the first stage when you dunk the set into water. I never had issues in 26 years of using and selling Atomic regulators because of the seat saver feature. I never used a scuba tank while rinsing the reg. This issue is grossly exaggerated.

I want the full titanium one if I buy yet another toy

T F X!!!