Atomic B2 Vs Sherwood Sr2

[drrich2]

A lot depends on what kind of diving you'll be doing. The longer & deeper you dive, the less doing a CESA if your reg. freezes up (e.g.: deep, cold water diving) looks acceptable. Granted, some gear redundancy is wise (e.g.: buddy, pony tank), but equipment reliability gets more important as you push the limits.

The 'life support' term has 2 evident uses; to upsell the gullible into buying more expensive gear, and to impress upon newbies how important this gear is. Depending on your angle, the intent can be noble or...less so.

My reg. is an Atomic B2 (I've got a Sherwood SR1 on a pony bottle for local quarry diving), and I like it fine. But it's one reputable brand amongst others (e.g.: APEKs, Scuba Pro, AquaLung, etc...). Where Atomic Aquatics got some criticism was in selling much more expensive reg.s breathing about the same that weigh a little less. But some people choose those reg.s.

I see it this way, for the original poster:

1.) The OP believes the B2 is the superior product. The psychological reassurance of having a product you trust, & not fretting about how the one you didn't get might've been better, can be valuable.

2.) The cost difference is modest, unless an expensive octo. is bought.

3.) If the SR2 can be serviced locally, that's a plus. It's nice to go to the LDS, see the reg. hooked to a tank, breathe off it & speak up if you have concerns, vs. getting it out of the mail. Sounds like with the B2, he'd be shipping it off.

I suspect either one will work fine for you. Weigh the convenience of local service (if available) vs. the greater faith you might have in the B2.

Richard.

 

[eelnoraa]

Diving is the only sport I know where people regularly comment that the cheapest that will work is the best option for life support gear.

Life support or not aside. It is true for everything. The cheapest that will work for the purpose you intended is the best option. The main phase here is "work for the purposed you intended". Take automobile for example, if everyone just need to go from A to B, there is no reason for having a big truck, SUV or sports cars. They exist for a reason, for those who need something more than just A to B. For regulator, if you care purely about the functionality of a regulator, there are far cheaper option than Atomic that breath as well and as reliable. If you care about having the top of the line Titanium to show off, then T3 is a good option. Most people are probably somewhere in between.

 

[diversteve]

@halocline

I owe you an apology and have removed my earlier comment - I confused you with another member whose username also starts with "hal"

To answer your other question, I also evaluated other regs - the best of the major mfr's.

One criteria was service proximity - I like to drop mine off then recover them in a few days - before I purchased an Atomic T2 about 5 years ago since my local shop was a dealer. Prior to that I owned an Atomic B1 - before that Dacor. I also have exposure to Poseidon thru a buddy.Poseidon doesn't have the dealer coverage here any longer - so that's no longer a viable option.

The appeal for me was the 2 year service interval, the corrosion resistance in salt water and overall durability of Titanium. And to a lesser extent - scratch resistance. Also the seat saver since I read here that one cause of IP creep is caused by reg seats imprinting over time when stored. Edit; Oops - mixed stages.. thanks to someone who pointed that out...

I travel to dive exclusively so my gear sits for longer periods of time than I like - the seat saver helps. IMO some of these features are in fact "better".

So I bought what I wanted. Personally I feel that the amount of engineering, redundancy and safety afforded by a modern design, balanced design is worth it. I've had cheaper regulators in the past and they did not breathe as good at depth and were significantly worse for jaw fatigue after long dives. They still kept me alive also - it just wasn't as effortless as most upper end regulators (>$500) can provide. To me that's worth more.

Read some of the ScubaLab reviews from about a decade ago - they're the ones that tagged the "best" designation on Atomic initially. Atomic built a quality product and capitalizes on that in their advertising not unlike the rest of the world.

Regulators are life support in the broadest sense of the word - try diving to 100' for an hour without one...

fyi, IMO Scubaboard used to be an oasis - but since the Marketplace forums were integrated into the regular forums - I personally feel it no longer is but I was not party to that decision. Some of the dealers/mfr's are more blatant than others but we also don't discourage that up to an "annoying" threshold. Sad really but someone has to pay the bills and Supporting Members don't.

 

[diversteve]

The cheapest that will work for the purpose you intended is the best option. The main phase here is "work for the purposed you intended".

I respectfully disagree.

You can dive with a $250 non-balanced low-end regulator which will certainly work for the purpose but is often harder to breathe near the end of a dive at depth or you can pay more - even double - for a balanced model which is often more effortless breathing in the same conditions - adding to the overall enjoyment of the dive - which is why I dive in the first place.

Referring back to my original comment - I consider that a fair trade-off since I dive for enjoyment and not to save money. I spend $2-3000 for every trip I take so $200 amortized over 10 years is $20/year. I spend more than that on tips on every trip.

Also a cost analysis seems to suggest that spending more is a bettter option also if the regs are maintained to the mfr's service interval/warranty requirements.

I did once comparing the 2 yr. service interval now being offered by Aqualung, Atomic and Scubapro for someone considering a $300 Mares model vs. a $410 Atomic B2. Somewhere between the 2nd/3rd service the Z2 becomes the better deal since the labor cost is the larger factor - not parts - even in the case of Aqualung with their FPFL program.

Take a 5 year interval and assuming you pay roughly $75 (I do) for service - the Mares had a total cost of ownership of $675 to stay within warranty compliance. The Atomic by comparison is $409 + $150 or $559 total cost of ownership . So all considered the more expensive model initially turns out to be the better deal over time.

Personally if I'm going to skip a year, I'm going to do it with a model designed to be stored over longer intervals.

 

[eelnoraa]

The appeal for me was the 2 year service interval, the corrosion resistance in salt water and overall durability of Titanium. And to a lesser extent - scratch resistance. Also the seat saver since I read here that one cause of IP creep is caused by reg seats imprinting over time when stored. I travel to dive exclusively so my gear sits for longer periods of time than I like. IMO some of these features are in fact "better".

This is false assumption. Ti is very easily scratched. Atomic use matte finish for Ti reg, that is why you don't notice it. Take a look at a Ti ring, from shiny to doll in a few week of wear.

 

[eelnoraa]

I respectfully disagree.

You can dive with a $250 non-balanced low-end regulator which will certainly work for the purpose but is often harder to breathe near the end of a dive at depth or you can pay more - even double - for a balanced model which is often more effortless breathing in the same conditions - adding to the overall enjoyment of the dive - which is why I dive in the first place.

The intended purpose is to breath the same across tank pressure. So an unbalanced first stage did NOT do the intended purpose. To archieve this same purpose, what does T2 does that Z2 doesn't for 1/3 the cost.

Sure T2 can achieve another purpose that Z2 can't, which is corrosion resistant when neglected. Not everyone neglect their regulator, so not everyone will need the extended of corrosion resistance of Ti. Z2 will also does things T2 can't, such as high O2 environment. What I am trying to say is everyone has different usage and priority, so "better" is different for everyone as well. No need to justify spending on Ti reg. In fact I also have a set of T2, but I didn't pay nearly as much as retail.

BTW, for $250, you can buy a new balanced seal diaphragm regulator that breath just as well at T2. That is HOG classic. I have both, so I didn't make this up.

 

[diversteve]

This is false assumption. Ti is very easily scratched. Atomic use matte finish for Ti reg, that is why you don't notice it. Take a look at a Ti ring, from shiny to doll in a few week of wear.

I've owned my T2 for 5 years now - and my idea of maintenance is a quick rinse then a good cleaning when I'm back home. It's not visibly scratched anywhere - and I once dropped my entire rig, tank, weights, bc off the back of a truck and it all landed solidly on the yoke - on one of the only big rocks it could've struck in the area - dusted it off and went diving - there's no visibile mark it ever happened.

why you don't notice it.

My point exactly...

To archieve this same purpose, what does T2 does that Z2 doesn't for 1/3 the cost.

Functionally in daily use - nothing - even Atomic touts that on their website. But Ti has proven better corrosion resistance than brass. And it's also lighter - marginally yes - but for me ounces count since I carry-on my regs - often on red-eye flights or all day flights to get to a destination.

I stopped carrying on a laptop in favor of a 7" tablet for the same reason - does everything I need at 1/4 the weight.

 

[eelnoraa]

I like numbers and I happen to have some.

T2 yoke 1st stage weight: 15.2oz
M1 din 1st stage weight: 1lb-6.4oz, difference of 7.0oz. Yes, big % difference in 1st stage because the extensive use of metal here

B2 2nd stage: 5.9oz
M1 2nd stage with heat sink: 7.6oz. Heatsink itself 1.1oz. So difference between Z2 and B2 (Brass vs Ti): 0.6oz. Minimal difference because metal portion here is small.

My estimation is that going from T2 to Z2, 1x 1st + 2x 2nd saves 8.2oz, call it 0.5lb

Let's now consider the entire regulator setup, my travel set: T2 yoke 1st, B2 2nd x 2, 7ft long hose with small snap, 22" backup with bungee, 22" LPI hose for wing, 26" drysuit hose, brass 1.75" SPG, miflex 24" HP hose, basically the standard DIR type single tank setup. Weight is 5lb 7.8oz, call it 5.5lb. Going from full brass to full Ti represents a 9% weight saving or 1/2lb out of 5.5lb. I will let each of his/her own to determine if weight saving is worth it.

Now, will you still carry your 7" tablet if it weights 90% of your laptop and cost 3x?

 

[diversteve]

Mine is a T2/Z1 octo with a set of Scubapro mini-gauges, no long hose - I've never weighed it. I use the 8oz savings for 10 oz of - expected by my group on our trips.

 

[halocline]

Regulators [B][I]are life support[/I] [/B]in the broadest sense of the word - try diving to 100' for an hour without one...:D

By that logic, many things we use on a daily basis are "life support"; warm clothes are life support (try going outside in the winter without them) even a bottle of water (can't survive long without water). And yet nobody in their right mind would suggest that more expensive clothes or bottles of water are 'safer.' There are lots of examples.

There's also the fact that it's air, not the regulator, that we need to stay alive underwater. The regulator simply provides one convenient way of accessing the available air that we carry. There are other ways to get air for survival; sharing air with a buddy, or simply swimming to the surface. These are, in fact, some of the most basic concepts of recreational dive training. It's ironic that sometimes its the [I][B]same person teaching someone how to survive a regulator failure [/B][/I]that will then claim that a regulator is "life support", clearly meaning that the student's life depends on his/her regulator. This is most commonly brought up as motivation to purchase an expensive regulator or to annually service a regulator regardless of its use. Hence the hypocrisy.

Scuba regulators are sporting equipment, just like any other piece of recreational gear. Any piece of gear can fail at any time, regardless of price or condition. They are only mechanical devices. Dive safety is dependent on dive behavior, not the regulator.

Anyhow, I appreciate your apology and I hope you'll re-consider the "life support" argument.