That's the way it goes. From a business standpoint it was a choice on my part. I know how to make money in this business but I just don't want to.
I hope you and your students can enjoy and benefit from your teaching regardless.
Thank heavens for PADI
- Thread starter Lawman
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That's the way it goes. From a business standpoint it was a choice on my part. I know how to make money in this business but I just don't want to.
I hope you and your students can enjoy and benefit from your teaching regardless.
Whirling Girl
Contributor
I have two words left regarding PADI that sort of sums up the way I feel about the level of safety that PADI chooses to teach:
DEEP. AIR.
I was at 90 feet tonight on air for 10 minutes and I was narced out of my mind. It's GUE Recreational Triox for me as soon as they are teaching one in Seattle.
Walter, what was the PADI suit against Diverlink and how were you involved?
Walterand Stephen Ash, I swear if the tension gets any thicker it will be zero vis in here. You have both proven yourselves to be articulate, well-spoken, clever, and in possession of remarkably patrician intellects. Your verbal fencing has grown ever more subtle and serpentine.
Get a room, you two. The attraction is obvious.
MikeF, What does it take to make money in this business and why don't you want to? Lower standards? More students/less thorough teaching? Having to push gear in your dive shop that you don't believe in?
I'm curious. You had a shop of your own, right? What happened?
DEEP. AIR.
I was at 90 feet tonight on air for 10 minutes and I was narced out of my mind. It's GUE Recreational Triox for me as soon as they are teaching one in Seattle.
Walter, what was the PADI suit against Diverlink and how were you involved?
Walterand Stephen Ash, I swear if the tension gets any thicker it will be zero vis in here. You have both proven yourselves to be articulate, well-spoken, clever, and in possession of remarkably patrician intellects. Your verbal fencing has grown ever more subtle and serpentine.
Get a room, you two. The attraction is obvious.
MikeF, What does it take to make money in this business and why don't you want to? Lower standards? More students/less thorough teaching? Having to push gear in your dive shop that you don't believe in?
I'm curious. You had a shop of your own, right? What happened?
No it is NOT fun, not even in a pool, no matter how useful it might look.
Narced at 90 feet?
Isn't that around 27 metres?
Nitrogen narcosis is usually found from 30 metres (roughly 100 feet) downwards.
Am I missing something?
Most studies indicate that narcosis symptoms begin after about 60 feet (20 meters).
Many different factors contribute to the onset of narcosis - rest, hydration, etc.
I've done dives to 100 feet without noticing any symptoms, and have also done dives to 85 feet and been stoned off my ass.
I also believe that cold water contributes to narcosis more than warm water, and that limited visibility conditions exacerbate the effects of narcosis as well - although I haven't seen any research to back that up.
Additionally: Narcosis ISN'T an on-off proposition. Like being drunk, there are different degrees. You may not be drunk after one beer, but it's a start....
-david
Many different factors contribute to the onset of narcosis - rest, hydration, etc.
I've done dives to 100 feet without noticing any symptoms, and have also done dives to 85 feet and been stoned off my ass.
I also believe that cold water contributes to narcosis more than warm water, and that limited visibility conditions exacerbate the effects of narcosis as well - although I haven't seen any research to back that up.
Additionally: Narcosis ISN'T an on-off proposition. Like being drunk, there are different degrees. You may not be drunk after one beer, but it's a start....
-david
Yup!
Getting narced is not a 30 meter thing for everyone. It can happen at any time for a variety of reasons. I was once narced noticably at 87 feet. I've not been narced since that shallow, but I've experienced it. No biggie, it was dealt with. But it happens at shallower depths.
Getting narced is not a 30 meter thing for everyone. It can happen at any time for a variety of reasons. I was once narced noticably at 87 feet. I've not been narced since that shallow, but I've experienced it. No biggie, it was dealt with. But it happens at shallower depths.
I think you pretty much answered your own question. You have to pump the OW students through. Since it costs a lot to teach and you can't charge very much for it you must do it efficiently (fast). The only purpose it serves is to sell equipment. For those who want to do this for a living it isn't all bad because it's actually what most people want.
With the equipment you must play the manufacturers game. That means dumping $18,000 into an outfit like scubapro for an opening order and letting them tell you how much of what else you can carry and how much of their stuff you must sell.
Then you have to teach in such a way that sells it.
If your post to Whirling Girl's query were to be taken literally than you are saying that there are no shops turning out adequate student divers. I think the majority of LDSs out in the real world do a good job and that the instructors or shops that turn out bad / dangerous novice divers are few. Certainly there are some and they do get most of the press, but if it was as bad as you indicate there would be diving accidents and deaths at a much higher rate.
I am using my dive buddy's comment to back up Diversaurus. The shop here turns out good divers. They trained me and they trained Chris. They train good divers all the time.
Mike, you may want to watch your wording. I understand your point, but just because you can't train divers to YOUR satisfaction and not make enough of a profit to stay open doesn't mean that many dive shops don't train divers that are safe to dive in the open water. I have seen minor incidents. They seemed major to me only because the divers that I dive with typically don't have buoyancy problems to a great degree and have better than average safety skills. As a result, I hadn't seen much resembling an incident until I started going to the quarry and Provo. The divers looked terrible to me, but I have only actually seen one or two unsafe divers. I have been diving around probably a couple hundred or more by now. Of those one or two divers, at least one was a matter of not being proficient (He hadn't dove in years, so we can't blame his training for that.).
Not everybody wants to learn technical diving right away. They want to work up to it. Buoyancy control is learned by diving, in my opinion. Let people learn and you will be suprised at the answers that they come up with. They may even find a way to improve on what is "common knowledge" right now. Experience is the art of surviving your mistakes. If you make them afraid to make mistakes, they may not try to learn anything new.
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