LDS won't viz my tank...

[MKrauter]

This is the response I received from the shop owner (I will post my email at the bottom).

"For years divers have been abusing dive shops. What I mean by that is that we are good enough for air fills, service and courses but not gear sales. They rather go online to save a few dollars yet utilize the shop's convenience for fills and service. This practice must be stopped or the industry will collapse. 500 dive shops went out of business in North America in the last 5 years. Consider that you "might" pay slightly for gear but reap all the other benefits by having a local shop to support you.

I will make an exception this time and take care of your tank, but I would strongly suggest that you give your local dive shops a serious chance of earning your business."

Personally I don't want to be the exception. I want to have my tank services, but I also don't want to send a mixed message. What do you guys think?

My original email as follows.

"After talking to you in the shop about doing a VIP on a tank purchased online, I was very perplexed to say the least about your decision and your policy. First off, I want to apologize. In no way was my shopping online meant as a sleight to you and your shop. I fully believe in supporting local business, however if this is not financially viable for me I will look for alternatives. For example, you quoted that your prices are often better then those at online vendors. However, when discussing options for hoses (in particular a 7' long hose) I was quoted "around 80$ for the longhose alone". Looking online, (http://www.divegearexpress.com/regulators/hoses_miflex.shtml) I can find one for close to 60$. Again, I do not mean this as a sleight, but as someone who is trying to piece a rig together on a budget, counting pennies is high on my list.

Though your decision may seem sensible, I urge you to reconsider. Though I bought the tank online, I cannot get yearly VIP and regular hydro tests from an online vendor. The cost of these, though not expensive, will rapidly come to exceed the initial cost of the tank.

Similarly, if you outright refuse to service one part of my equipment, how is it a good investment on my part to get other gear serviced through your shop?

Your shop clearly has many devoted and knowledgeable employees as well as a customer base that holds you in high regard. For these reasons, I hope that you will reconsider your decision.

I look forward to your response,

Mitchell"

 

[fnfalman]

So I just bought a 40 cu/ft tank from LP. Mostly to just dick around off the back of a boat whilst fishing (or cleaning the boat..). Split the cost between me and a family member so cost wise was pretty cheap.

Just picked it up today from the UPS store and go to get it a visual and fill to be ready for the weekend. As I get the tank out the shop owner asks me where I got the tank from, then refuses to service it on the grounds that buying online kills LDS.. Never mind the fact I have signed up for the dive club, was talking to an employee about continuing courses there and had bought tidbits there.

Then he goes on about how he is charging less then online shops (80$ for a rubber 7' hose.. Really..). I know he just lost my business completely (closest shop is an hour away. But am I being unreasonable here or should I try and talk to him about this decision and it's ramifications?

Yes you're being unreasonable.

Yes the shop owner is an idiot.

 

[crosshairs]

My .02 is he sounds like a condescending prick.....he is going to make an "exception" and do you a favor by taking your money for VIP's and air fills? I would drive the 1 hour to get the VIP and fills at the other place just to send him my own message.

 

[muzikbiz22]

1. So the LDS has agreed to make "an exception" for you, and you're still "upset" ?
2 - You also want to save "about $20" on a hose. Go ahead and save "about $20". Who is going to put the hose on your rig and test it for you ? Point here is your LDS, whilst a few bucks more, would probably take care of this for you, and make sure you rig is ready to dive. Or is Dive Gear Express going to fly out and do this for you ? Yes that was sarcastic, with no ill will towards Dive Gear Express, as I am a customer of theirs, great place !
3 - Did you attempt to buy the tank at the same LDS first ?
4 - All of this over a couple of bucks ?

 

[cocoajoe]

Good to know. I am just concerned because the next closest LDS is an hour away. I am considering emailing him but I don't think it is worth my time.

Ahh, therein lies the rub. Something similar happened to me (well sort of) 2 years ago. I was checking out a new mask and ask the kid behind the desk if I could try it out in their pool. He said no, I walked out vowing to never darken their doorway again. And I haven't. If I really need something, I'll get it on the way to the dive at Force E if store hours permit. Or travel the extra 20 miles.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If a local dive shop believes they must rely on gear sales to survive, then maybe they should reconsider their business model? It seems to me that LDSs are not very successful in this apparent quest to get people to voluntarily subsidize their other services by buying gear there. I mean, maybe if it becomes clear that a LDS can't subsidize air fills with gear sales, that is an indication that air fills should cost more, or that they should try to generate revenue through other means, such as providing instruction and dive travel. If fewer and fewer people are buying gear from their LDSs, will all local dive shops eventually go out of business? Or will LDSs manage to survive by finding other revenue? I'm not an economist, but is it not true that if there is a demand for something, the supply will find it at the market price? Maybe air fills need to cost more, or dive instruction needs to cost more. If every LDS in an area where people want air fills goes out of business, SOMEBODY in the local area is going to open one and charge a premium for air fills because there is sufficient demand for air fills even at that price. Is my logic flawed?

 

[toddthecat]

That is one jerkass shop owner. He rides a horse so high you'll need a telescope to see him. As I said a few days ago, some people like that need to do whatever it takes to "win" the argument. He degrades you and turns you into the little guy by "making an exception". It is his version of winning. Now let me ask you this......he's making a special exception for you as a low class piece of filth (I'm not calling you that, but he sure sounds like he feels that way about you). So what about the next time you need service, an air fill, a purchase, etc? How long will he keep making exceptions for the working class peon? Maybe you can get discounts if you hand feed him grapes...

This guy is outrageous. Find a different dive shop and hold on to that email. You were COMPLETELY professional in your email and unnecessarily apologetic (I wouldn't have apologized at all). After all that he still wants to win an argument to boost his ego? Talk about compensation...

---------- Post added July 26th, 2013 at 12:59 PM ----------

1. So the LDS has agreed to make "an exception" for you, and you're still "upset" ?
2 - You also want to save "about $20" on a hose. Go ahead and save "about $20". Who is going to put the hose on your rig and test it for you ? Point here is your LDS, whilst a few bucks more, would probably take care of this for you, and make sure you rig is ready to dive. Or is Dive Gear Express going to fly out and do this for you ? Yes that was sarcastic, with no ill will towards Dive Gear Express, as I am a customer of theirs, great place !
3 - Did you attempt to buy the tank at the same LDS first ?
4 - All of this over a couple of bucks ?

1. Making an "exception" because the owner was pissed he bought something that wasn't at his shop? That shop owner would have you wrapped around his finger...

2. Putting on a hose takes a wrench and about 30 seconds. Any diver can do it. If you haven't had to take hoses on/off of your rig before, you don't have much dive experience.

3. Willing to bet the LDS couldn't beat the price, especially since the customer bought it used and second hand, but I won't go into making assumptions so I'll let that one go.

4. All of it over simple customer service. The money is a moot point when it comes to the fact the guy threw a tantrum over the fact the customer bought a used tank. After that, the customer was apologetic and nothing but polite in his email and the guy continued to throw his fit when he replied.

Sounds to me, based on the LDS owner, that his shop is VERY, VERY close to going out of business.

---------- Post added July 26th, 2013 at 01:02 PM ----------

If a local dive shop believes they must rely on gear sales to survive, then maybe they should reconsider their business model? If every LDS in an area where people want air fills goes out of business, SOMEBODY in the local area is going to open one and charge a premium for air fills because there is sufficient demand for air fills even at that price. Is my logic flawed?

To answer your first question: Yes. They need to reconsider their business model. Obviously they either don't teach classes at all or aren't charging enough for them because they have ridiculous overhead.

To answer the second question: No, your logic is not flawed. Supply and demand. Yes, it's economics, but it's also common sense.

As I said earlier in a reply: If this guy is that upset over a tank sale (tanks are pretty much the lowest profit item in the store right after weights which are zero profit), then he must REALLY need to pay the bills. Give it a few months and they'll be gone.

 

[Aguablanco1]

I am totally confused by the abuse statement. Is it abuse to shop at more than one retailer? Is it abuse for me to decide, in the case of the hose, to save 25% plus sales tax? If a diver needs someone to put their hose on an open circuit rig they might want to consider a new hobby. This owner seems pissed that his captive clientele is not as captive as he would like. While I always try to support my LDS's, I won't go much over 7% price difference, not including sales tax. Sounds like someone in the area should buy a compressor and start doing fills.Having owned and operated businesses since 1982, I would say this is some of the worst customer service, including the response, that I have ever come across. I am a garage door contractor and my company will service any brand or model regardless of who the initial retailer or service company was. We always hope to make not only a service call but a repeat customer. I would never consider it abusive to me for anyone to shop elsewhere. This guy needs a reality check for how the current market works, not just in scuba, but in all facets of retail. If he continues with his current policy he will, in due time, have absolutely no customer base. Virtually all divers purchase at least some of their gear online and that trend will only increase with time. With his poor attitude that time will invariably grow shorter until he won't service anyone's gear because they didn't buy it from him. And he wonders why he is losing business. A good look in the mirror will tell him everything he needs to know.
RichH

PS, Are you willing to name the shop?

 

[muzikbiz22]

---------- Post added July 26th, 2013 at 12:59 PM ----------





2. Putting on a hose takes a wrench and about 30 seconds. Any diver can do it. If you haven't had to take hoses on/off of your rig before, you don't have much dive experience.

3. Willing to bet the LDS couldn't beat the price, especially since the customer bought it used and second hand, but I won't go into making assumptions so I'll let that one go.

#2 - I do my own hoses all the time, perhaps the OP doesn't. Just sayin'
#3 - The tank the OP is talking about is new, not used.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I've noticed over the years that *most* dive shop owners are not the greatest business people. It's not really a business that is a huge money maker, and as such people who are good at business and the venture capitalist types would never open a dive shop as a lucrative way to make money.
Most dive shops are opened and run by divers as a hobby type shop because they love everything about diving and think owning and running a dive shop will feed their need and love of diving, but then they realize just how hard and frustrating retail can be, but are too proud and stubborn to admit they suck at it.
If the diver happens to be good at business then you've got something, but most of the time ego's, hurt feelings, and macho BS get in the way.