I stand corrected on that one
---------- Post added July 26th, 2013 at 01:15 PM ----------
That really couldn't have been put any better. What you said was dead on.
LDS won't viz my tank...
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I stand corrected on that one
---------- Post added July 26th, 2013 at 01:15 PM ----------
That really couldn't have been put any better. What you said was dead on.
This shop owner is a tool. Don't apologize to him anymore. Please email his a link to this thread. He needs to know that the majority doesn't find this approach acceptable, and neither will his base of customers.
iluvtheocean
Contributor
just thought of something very similar ---
You buy your car at your local ford (just an example!!!!) dealership. You now need to replace the spark plugs (or insert part). Dealer says you must buy it from them. Buying them anywhere else will cause the dealership to lose money and cause them to go under... not even close!!!
yes your LDS is in business to make money. You are in the business to save yourself money & get what product/service you desire. Like it was said before. a good businessman is willing to lose a little bit of money on an item that he couldn't match in return for future business. What's better losing sale on a couple of items or building your customer base, assuring future services & possible sales come to you? besides who cares where they got the tank? the LDS is getting business via tank inspection/cleaning/hydro services. the few lds i've spoken to about tanks have told me they are a very low profit margin item anyways-- the money for them is in rentals, servicing, and fills.
You buy your car at your local ford (just an example!!!!) dealership. You now need to replace the spark plugs (or insert part). Dealer says you must buy it from them. Buying them anywhere else will cause the dealership to lose money and cause them to go under... not even close!!!
yes your LDS is in business to make money. You are in the business to save yourself money & get what product/service you desire. Like it was said before. a good businessman is willing to lose a little bit of money on an item that he couldn't match in return for future business. What's better losing sale on a couple of items or building your customer base, assuring future services & possible sales come to you? besides who cares where they got the tank? the LDS is getting business via tank inspection/cleaning/hydro services. the few lds i've spoken to about tanks have told me they are a very low profit margin item anyways-- the money for them is in rentals, servicing, and fills.
I have kinda stayed out of this as the last time I posted what I really thought about a shop being full of it I got scolded. Ruler across the knuckles like a mean old nun would do. Course I was hot, tired, and cranky that day. So honesty was at a premium. That is sometimes verboten.
So with a calm smile on my face, a cat on my lap, and nice cool temperature today I will weigh in.
What this shop owner did was the reason many shops are going under. Not because of divers. Because of their own attitudes and inability to step into the 21st century. The net is here to stay. You can buy anything, literally, via the internet if you are willing to look, research, and take some time. Now some are going to say you can't buy airfills. Bull Crap. You can do a search and find shops nearby that you may not have known about when one does something like this. You can buy your own compressor or form a club and the club buy one with clear operating and maintenance rules. Could be a major pain but not totally out of the question. As someone else noted if a shop goes under and someone sees a need they can open a fill station.
The other reason shops go under today is the terms of the manufacturers whose gear they sell. Not many places can afford a 50,000 or even 25,000 opening order. Especially when some of that has to be stuff that the shop has a snowball's chance in hell of selling in their area.
Of course that is changing also. I was asked at Beneath the Sea if I wanted to carry a line by a mfg that never would have thought of asking me before. I turned it down as there is a shop I work with close by and cooperate with that also carries the line. I don't want to step on his toes. But if he decides to drop the line or says I can have the on line side of sales, since he does not have an on line shop, I may reconsider. And this was not the only one.
A line that two years ago required a min order of $1500.00 (not huge but given the product a gamble given my area as that represents about 100 items) were now saying they'd send me 5 items or even one or two and then see how they did and no minimum after that! Still I did not pick it up as it is a gamble in my area.
The shops that will survive are made up of a couple points in my own view. Number one over anything else is service. Bought it on line from another dealer? I don't care. I will still service it if I can. Some things may need to be taken care of by the mfg but I will do my best to help. An item or line I don't carry and your LDS won't mess with it cause they are being babies? I have enough contacts that I can refer someone to another shop that will do it and do it right.
Just did that this weekend. I met a lady in Ohio with a Poseidon reg that she needed done. A 30 yr old reg at that. I came home, got on the net, made some calls, and gave her the name of a shop and tech that based on my phone calls I would use. And she now has a place to send her reg. I could have tried to sell her a new HOG reg. But I know that some who dive Poseidons would rather not dive than use something else (or so it seems). So I didn't even try. But guess who called me about looking into a new BPW system after they saw the one I donated for the DAN BBQ this past weekend? No reg sale but who knows what else she may decide to pull the trigger on.
After service is shop owners need to be more choosy about who they carry and the terms they will accept. At one time, as I see it, certain lines had to beat dealers off with a stick. Now they are begging for them while still clinging to their draconian terms for being a dealer. And shops are not buying it.
They also need to be more choosy about what they carry in general. I have no problem sending someone to one of the two local shops I cooperate with when someone needs or wants an item I don't have. And they send people to me for the lines I do that they don't or they don't want to mess with shipping it. I have no problem doing that. I have access to a number of accessory lines via these shops and one or two others on line I use for what I call "convenience items". Stuff too small to stock normally or requested once in a blue moon. So I use my contacts and get a little break and both of us make a few bucks that neither of us otherwise might have because if they are willing to wait I can offer a one stop shopping experience.
I do this with small items. Over the years I have a good idea of what I should keep on hand at all times. And have a source that buys it in numbers that I can't. They cut me a break on quantity that still allows me to make a dollar or two and at the same time provide a service to my customers as they don't have to go to another source and pay $9.00 shipping on $12.00 worth of goods.
There are shops that can carry multiple major lines and stock hundreds of accessories. Very few of them are small local LDS's. They are big shops in high traffic areas with a significant on line presence. They have embraced the technology and will do fine. The small local LDS needs to at least try or do something unique.
Next - classes. OW classes are not money makers. In most cases. At least for the instructors. An OW class should be on par with golf lessons or ski lessons. Price those lately? Bad golf pro's around here get $75 an hour. Good ones - up to $1000 a day plus expenses. To show you how to hit a ball with a crooked stick. I have a part time ski instructor customer in Colorado. People fly in and pay $700 a day plus expenses. To go down a hill on two barrel staves. Going up would be impressive!
Going by that OW classes at a minumum should be $600 for group lessons. But thanks to some entities that rely on volume and people who will work for free that ain't going to happen. And the general public is to blame also. Hmm a $600 comprehensive class that will insure I don't need to have my hand held over 6 weeks or a weekend compressed bare minimum for $199.00 that will pretty much require me to be led around by the nose and have no idea how close to dying I am. I'll pick the cheap one! YAY!
No, LDS's don't need to teach more classes or raise prices on them. They need to quit teaching them and offer classroom, pool, and gear rental to independent instructors who set their own rates and refer all of their students to the GOOD LDS for all gear and air fills. And they carry the gear and brands that the instructor recommends. Not force the instructor to push what they want to sell.
That is how shops will survive. In my opinion.
So with a calm smile on my face, a cat on my lap, and nice cool temperature today I will weigh in.
What this shop owner did was the reason many shops are going under. Not because of divers. Because of their own attitudes and inability to step into the 21st century. The net is here to stay. You can buy anything, literally, via the internet if you are willing to look, research, and take some time. Now some are going to say you can't buy airfills. Bull Crap. You can do a search and find shops nearby that you may not have known about when one does something like this. You can buy your own compressor or form a club and the club buy one with clear operating and maintenance rules. Could be a major pain but not totally out of the question. As someone else noted if a shop goes under and someone sees a need they can open a fill station.
The other reason shops go under today is the terms of the manufacturers whose gear they sell. Not many places can afford a 50,000 or even 25,000 opening order. Especially when some of that has to be stuff that the shop has a snowball's chance in hell of selling in their area.
Of course that is changing also. I was asked at Beneath the Sea if I wanted to carry a line by a mfg that never would have thought of asking me before. I turned it down as there is a shop I work with close by and cooperate with that also carries the line. I don't want to step on his toes. But if he decides to drop the line or says I can have the on line side of sales, since he does not have an on line shop, I may reconsider. And this was not the only one.
A line that two years ago required a min order of $1500.00 (not huge but given the product a gamble given my area as that represents about 100 items) were now saying they'd send me 5 items or even one or two and then see how they did and no minimum after that! Still I did not pick it up as it is a gamble in my area.
The shops that will survive are made up of a couple points in my own view. Number one over anything else is service. Bought it on line from another dealer? I don't care. I will still service it if I can. Some things may need to be taken care of by the mfg but I will do my best to help. An item or line I don't carry and your LDS won't mess with it cause they are being babies? I have enough contacts that I can refer someone to another shop that will do it and do it right.
Just did that this weekend. I met a lady in Ohio with a Poseidon reg that she needed done. A 30 yr old reg at that. I came home, got on the net, made some calls, and gave her the name of a shop and tech that based on my phone calls I would use. And she now has a place to send her reg. I could have tried to sell her a new HOG reg. But I know that some who dive Poseidons would rather not dive than use something else (or so it seems). So I didn't even try. But guess who called me about looking into a new BPW system after they saw the one I donated for the DAN BBQ this past weekend? No reg sale but who knows what else she may decide to pull the trigger on.
After service is shop owners need to be more choosy about who they carry and the terms they will accept. At one time, as I see it, certain lines had to beat dealers off with a stick. Now they are begging for them while still clinging to their draconian terms for being a dealer. And shops are not buying it.
They also need to be more choosy about what they carry in general. I have no problem sending someone to one of the two local shops I cooperate with when someone needs or wants an item I don't have. And they send people to me for the lines I do that they don't or they don't want to mess with shipping it. I have no problem doing that. I have access to a number of accessory lines via these shops and one or two others on line I use for what I call "convenience items". Stuff too small to stock normally or requested once in a blue moon. So I use my contacts and get a little break and both of us make a few bucks that neither of us otherwise might have because if they are willing to wait I can offer a one stop shopping experience.
I do this with small items. Over the years I have a good idea of what I should keep on hand at all times. And have a source that buys it in numbers that I can't. They cut me a break on quantity that still allows me to make a dollar or two and at the same time provide a service to my customers as they don't have to go to another source and pay $9.00 shipping on $12.00 worth of goods.
There are shops that can carry multiple major lines and stock hundreds of accessories. Very few of them are small local LDS's. They are big shops in high traffic areas with a significant on line presence. They have embraced the technology and will do fine. The small local LDS needs to at least try or do something unique.
Next - classes. OW classes are not money makers. In most cases. At least for the instructors. An OW class should be on par with golf lessons or ski lessons. Price those lately? Bad golf pro's around here get $75 an hour. Good ones - up to $1000 a day plus expenses. To show you how to hit a ball with a crooked stick. I have a part time ski instructor customer in Colorado. People fly in and pay $700 a day plus expenses. To go down a hill on two barrel staves. Going up would be impressive!
Going by that OW classes at a minumum should be $600 for group lessons. But thanks to some entities that rely on volume and people who will work for free that ain't going to happen. And the general public is to blame also. Hmm a $600 comprehensive class that will insure I don't need to have my hand held over 6 weeks or a weekend compressed bare minimum for $199.00 that will pretty much require me to be led around by the nose and have no idea how close to dying I am. I'll pick the cheap one! YAY!
No, LDS's don't need to teach more classes or raise prices on them. They need to quit teaching them and offer classroom, pool, and gear rental to independent instructors who set their own rates and refer all of their students to the GOOD LDS for all gear and air fills. And they carry the gear and brands that the instructor recommends. Not force the instructor to push what they want to sell.
That is how shops will survive. In my opinion.
flots am
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You might, but most people wouldn't.
If you use the average cost/mile of around $0.50, and assume an average of 40M/H, each fill will cost $20 just for the trip, not even counting your time.
The guy sounds like a dick, but with no real competition, he can probably do what he wants.
If I lived there, I'd open up a fill & service station just take his customers.
flots.
@muzik- I have changed my hoses on my 1st stage just to clarify. I was worried and did a quick Internet search and found it was as simple as using a wrench.
@Jim- thank you for your comprehensive answer. I think I will reply today and tell him thanks but no thanks. I will also include a link to this thread which I hope he takes the time to read.
Thank you all for you're answers and support. fnfalman may I ask why I am being unreasonable?
@ Flots am - Well in all honesty the 2 hr round trip is broken up into 1hr Friday evening and 1hr Sunday night so it's not a get a fill and turn right around.
@Jim- thank you for your comprehensive answer. I think I will reply today and tell him thanks but no thanks. I will also include a link to this thread which I hope he takes the time to read.
Thank you all for you're answers and support. fnfalman may I ask why I am being unreasonable?
@ Flots am - Well in all honesty the 2 hr round trip is broken up into 1hr Friday evening and 1hr Sunday night so it's not a get a fill and turn right around.
Did you try the fire places yet?
No problem! I'd like to know what you find out. My wife and I have considered a move to Canada so I'm kinda curious about the regulations with regard to air fills. Wherever we go we still want to dive!!!
I really hope the LDS owner comes and reads this thread. Doubt he'll reply because he can't have his ego bruised but it sure would be fun if he did!
I really hope the LDS owner comes and reads this thread. Doubt he'll reply because he can't have his ego bruised but it sure would be fun if he did!
If you don't mind paying someone to be treated like fodder, you probably won't make the drive. But if you want excellent service from an experienced staff, you'll make the drive. An hour's drive just isn't that far in context of how long it takes to get around the city for anything else.
It's very difficult for an LDS to match the online retail prices of shops like Leisure Pro, the sales volume just isn't there for the LDS. The online stores generate very large savings for the customer over the typical LDS pricing, which the diver can spend on diving. The LDS should know that and compensate with excellent in-store service, training, and trips rather than some misguided dictatorial customer loyalty concept. The LDS in this thread has a deranged business model that can't survive in a modern retail environment.
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