New tank buyer questions

[Eric Sedletzky]

I’m 6’4” and use 120’s. I like the longer skinnier profile. 100’s are good too, but 20 more CF, why not? I just traded my dive shop a 100 for a 120. They can rent out the 100 easier and I wanted another 120.
I take my own tanks into the hydro place, I think they’re up to $35 now?

 

[broncobowsher]

Who typically pays for the hydro on tanks that are out of hydro, but have a guarantee?

There is no typical answer to the question. It is factored into the value of the tank.
You can ask the seller to guarantee it will pass, in that case it is in the best interest of the seller to just do the hydro and sell them with a fresh hydro. But you will pay more. Not just the cost of the hydro, but the work involved in taking them in to hydro and picking them up again. That is time, and having someone spend time on something will cost you. That is why it is cheaper if you pick them up and have them hydrod. That is your time and you can put your own value on that time.

To expect a seller to hydro for free, go pound sand. To expect a seller to do a hydro and sell to you at cost, you can try to negotiate that. Maybe they will, maybe they will just wait for a buyer that isn't an inconvience?

I get my best deals on empty, out of hydro tanks. A quick peak inside, looks good enough, I'll take. I've also bought the exact tanks I wanted that were being sold with a fresh hydro just done to them.

 

[-JD-]

Be aware that there are specific procedures that need to be followed for hydro-testing Hot Dip Galvanized steel cylinders. Be sure that your facility is aware of them or you may end up with in incorrectly failed and permanently disqualified tank. Your local fire extinguisher shop may not be experienced with HDG cylinders.

 

[Nosmosis]

I'm 6'3" (170cm), 175lbs (80kg), steel BP/W with dual cambands and a zeagle F8 yoke. I am doing mostly air for shore dives, but am nitrox certified. I've just started diving dry (previously all wet) in the north east of the US. I've done ~115 dives. I'm at a point where I can get some tanks. A few statements/questions that help outline my requirements:

1. I have an outdoor, unheated garage space, can I store the tanks in there, or is that risky?
2. I'm wanting steel, as I prefer the bouyancy
3. I understand I should not buy used tanks without hydro
5. I use more air than everyone else
6. HP120 or HP133 seem like what others around my height/weight are recommending here on the forum. Does that match up with dry suit and steel BP/W?
7. Can I avoid LDS markup by doing hydro/VIP at a fire extinguisher place? I'm wanting to do the math to see how it all works out, and want to call some local shops. It costs me $30/tank/day for steel right now
8. It seems scuba.com has faber hp133 for about $400, DGX for $534... I usually find DGX to be a better price, why is that price so much higher?

1. No, unless it gets super hot there in the summer and you plan on keeping them filled.
2. Steel would be better if you are diving dry and want to cut down the weight you carry.
3. You can buy tanks without hydro, but there is some risk they will not pass. Often though if you do a VIP and it is OK, it probably will pass hydro. That can be a small investment for piece-of-mind prior to buying. If you want 100% certainty, in hydro better.
4. Work on your fundamental skills. Find a good instructor. Perhaps take GUE Fundies. Check your weighting, you might be overweighted and this is directly proportional to air consumption (more weight, more gas in wing/BCD, more drag) and if you are flutter kicking also you are probably breathing like a pissed off dragon. Again a good instructor can help you here. Also maybe get some cardio in and learn how to breath (seriously, like make sure you expel as much CO2 as you can). Yoga can help.
5. HP120s or HP133s are usually, in my opinion, an equipment fix for a skills problem. Instead of fixing the skills (the harder path) you just get a bigger tank to chug more air. I am 6'3" 240lbs and have never needed these size cylinders. Sure extra gas is nice, but they are bigger, heavier. Go with HP100s. Fix the skills. It's enough. With decent gas consumption, you could easily get 40 minutes on one and be back on the boat with 1000 psi.
6. Maybe you can get a hydro and VIP at a fire extinguisher place, but I think it is probably marginal savings. There are lots of PSI-PCI inspectors (I am one). I charge $20 for a VIP. Hydro though, many dive shops send them out and this may make it more expensive.
7. I have not had this experience, but I have heard from others that the reason the tank packages look cheap on DGX is that the valves are cheap Chinese ones. Maybe that's fine.

 

[TravisD]

1. No, unless it gets super hot there in the summer and you plan on keeping them filled.

If your garage gets hot enough to be an issue for properly filled SCUBA cylinders, you likely have other problems such as the raging fire that's going on. A cylinder filled to 3000 psi @ 70°F will rise to almost 3300 PSI @ 120°F - well within the limits of the cylinder and burst disc. You're looking at ~250F ambient to get over 4k PSI.

If I'm buying, and I have reason to trust the seller I have no problem dealing with hydro/vip/fill since the last two are effectively free for me, and the first is cheap (US$20) and gives me an excuse to get out of the house during the week. If I was selling I would probably consider doing hydro/vip/fill beforehand to minimize dealing with picky buyers and possible refunds.

Last cylinder I bought from a friend on the "if it passes Hydro, then pay me" plan.

 

[Litefoot]

7. I have not had this experience, but I have heard from others that the reason the tank packages look cheap on DGX is that the valves are cheap Chinese ones. Maybe that's fine.

I bought two HP100's from scuba.com about a year apart. I was on the fence where to buy the second tank, but I decided to go back to scuba.com because the first tank had the XS Scuba Pro Valve with the short rotation and the red/green valve open/closed indicators which I like. I was disappointed to find that the second tank had the cheaper Thermo valve. Not a big deal, but do pay attention to the details when comparing.

 

[lexvil]

I bought two HP100's from scuba.com about a year apart. I was on the fence where to buy the second tank, but I decided to go back to scuba.com because the first tank had the XS Scuba Pro Valve with the short rotation and the red/green valve open/closed indicators which I like. I was disappointed to find that the second tank had the cheaper Thermo valve. Not a big deal, but do pay attention to the details when comparing.

You can change to the vindicator handle

Vindicator Valve Knobs

The Vindicator Handwheel for scuba valves is a safety device that can help divers avoid inadvertently starting a dive with a cylinder valve in the wrong position.

www.divegearexpress.com

 

[Belzelbub]

1. I have an outdoor, unheated garage space, can I store the tanks in there, or is that risky?

I store my tanks in a garage. But, unheated is not really a consideration where I am. Uncooled would be more of an issue.

2. I'm wanting steel, as I prefer the bouyancy

Yep. Agreed.

3. I understand I should not buy used tanks without hydro

I wouldn't necessarily say that. I've bought 4 used steels without hydro. As long as you factor the cost of hydro in, that should be fine. For sure, it's a risk, but a hydro failure on a non-abused/neglected tank would be quite rare.

5. I use more air than everyone else
6. HP120 or HP133 seem like what others around my height/weight are recommending here on the forum. Does that match up with dry suit and steel BP/W?

Between those two, I'd go with the HP120. HP133 are the 8" diameter, which can be tough to fit in some tank brackets, or will require you to adjust your cam bands if you use another tank. HP120s are quite long, but given your height, I don't think you'll have a problem. You are a few inches taller than me and I can use HP120s with no issue. I also regularly use HP100s. Depending on who I'm diving with. My daughters use so little air that I'll often grab the larger tank to ensure our times are close.

7. Can I avoid LDS markup by doing hydro/VIP at a fire extinguisher place? I'm wanting to do the math to see how it all works out, and want to call some local shops. It costs me $30/tank/day for steel right now

For hydro, in some areas this is possible. A fire extinguisher place is most likely not going to do a VIP that would be recognized by your LDS. So, they'd need to do the VIP as well. That and the convenience may make the markup worth it.

8. It seems scuba.com has faber hp133 for about $400, DGX for $534... I usually find DGX to be a better price, why is that price so much higher?

Again, look at the HP120s. I find them to be a better option. As far as pricing from two different places, who knows. Scuba.com likely does more business, so they can get better pricing. I'd also look at your LDS as well.

I bought my HP120s new. I sold my HP133s and wanted the HP120s to replace them. I checked a couple dive shops in my area, then also checked Scuba.com. With Scuba.com, I would have to have my LDS do a VIP, so I was factoring that in. IIRC, DGX may sell tanks with a VIP, but that certainly doesn't cover all the cost difference. Anyway, before ordering, I called my LDS. They had a couple HP120s. Their regular price (including VIP) was better than Scuba.com as well as another local shop during their Annual Scuba "Sale."

 

[34109411]

I'm 6'3" (170cm), 175lbs (80kg), steel BP/W with dual cambands and a zeagle F8 yoke. I am doing mostly air for shore dives, but am nitrox certified. I've just started diving dry (previously all wet) in the north east of the US. I've done ~115 dives. I'm at a point where I can get some tanks. A few statements/questions that help outline my requirements:

1. I have an outdoor, unheated garage space, can I store the tanks in there, or is that risky?
2. I'm wanting steel, as I prefer the bouyancy
3. I understand I should not buy used tanks without hydro
5. I use more air than everyone else
6. HP120 or HP133 seem like what others around my height/weight are recommending here on the forum. Does that match up with dry suit and steel BP/W?
7. Can I avoid LDS markup by doing hydro/VIP at a fire extinguisher place? I'm wanting to do the math to see how it all works out, and want to call some local shops. It costs me $30/tank/day for steel right now
8. It seems scuba.com has faber hp133 for about $400, DGX for $534... I usually find DGX to be a better price, why is that price so much higher?

6. take the hp 120 i am 6.2 220 lbs. 133 will be my overkill. i think hp 100 will be the best for you

 

[Still Kicking]

I am 6'2 and dive 120s exclusively. I don't find them excessively long or heavy on my back and you get used to lugging them around (part of my stringent workout regimen lol).

They give me the option of one long shore dive or multiple short boat dives (more typical bug hunting) and they give me more gas in the same footprint on the boat as a 100. (Space is everything on a small boat.) Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

If you start using nitrox more, larger tanks give you more flexibility to take advantage of longer bottom times.

Keep an eye on used market in your area. If there are steels for sale regularly I would not buy new, especially as you seem to be inclined to save a dollar.

Educating yourself is key. Learn how to read a tank (difference between 3500 vs 3442 psi etc.) and how to inspect it. PSTs, Worthingtons and Fabers are the ones to look for. I would avoid Asahi, Heisler etc.

Have cash ready and jump on good deals when you see them. Negotiate a better price on out of hydro but i would still buy if they are reasonably clean (flash rush is NBD and can be used to drive a bargain). You just need to know what is ok and what is a rust bucket.