How do you feel about guaranteed to pass IE programs?

[Guba]

In Texas, we have standardized tests in our public education systems (I'm an educator). Students must pass these tests to progress in certain grades/courses. I GUARANTEE my students will pass! But there are some caveats. IF a student stays focused and participates, IF he/she completes assignments, studies, and prepares for class, IF they fulfill the requirements of the course and master skills, IF they dedicate honest effort to the exam...they will pass. I guarantee it.
However, I do NOT guarantee that just showing up will insure a passing grade on the standardized test (nor in my class).
I'm reading the advertisement content in the same light. It's a marketing ploy, and I think most folks will interpret it in the same manner.

 

[TheTrickster]

I read the original thread, and perhaps the wording isn't the best and there are some claims, which I think are a little lame ('Best CDs in World' and 'Guaranteed to Pass')

However I know of a OWSI who took 6, yes ladies and gentlemen 6 goes at passing the IE, I can see this course being aimed directly at people like these.

And Steve50, I agree it looks like its a second chance only...

I haven't been tempted at all with these type courses, I'm happy helping out at weekends and evenings, gaining experience and then when I ready (could be 3months heck even 3 years!) then I'll take the OWSI/IE...

6 Months, from your first DSD to being an instructor all in the same clear warm waters, same sites and same boats - then back to the US or Europe, to the cold, murky waters - I'm scared! Very scared....

 

[chickdiver]

It does seem to me that the requirement of only 50 dives between certification and an ITC (or whatever your agency calls it) is ridiculously low. Taking into consideration the number of required dives for the certifications necessary to qualify for the ITC, one can literally have done almost no diving other than under instruction. I also find it hard to beleive that "institute" type programs can deliver a quality instructor. There is much to be said for experience. Both experience diving in a wide variety of conditions, and experience in dealing with students, such as one gains by assisting classes and leading dives as a DM. Shortcuts are just that, shortcuts- and they create an inferior product almost every time (I am sure there is the exception, but it's a rare occurance). It's time that shops (and CD's) stopped seeing students as dollar signs and pushing them through a program desgned to net them the most dollar wise in the shortest period of time. It's time that more instructors start taking some pride in the divers and instructors they produce (some of us already do). It's also time that instructors started getting paid commensurate with experience and education.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It does seem to me that the requirement of only 50 dives between certification and an ITC (or whatever your agency calls it) is ridiculously low. Taking into consideration the number of required dives for the certifications necessary to qualify for the ITC, one can literally have done almost no diving other than under instruction. I also find it hard to beleive that "institute" type programs can deliver a quality instructor. There is much to be said for experience. Both experience diving in a wide variety of conditions, and experience in dealing with students, such as one gains by assisting classes and leading dives as a DM. Shortcuts are just that, shortcuts- and they create an inferior product almost every time (I am sure there is the exception, but it's a rare occurance). It's time that shops (and CD's) stopped seeing students as dollar signs and pushing them through a program desgned to net them the most dollar wise in the shortest period of time. It's time that more instructors start taking some pride in the divers and instructors they produce (some of us already do). It's also time that instructors started getting paid commensurate with experience and education.

Good statement! It gives shops/instructors that do try a bad name when agencies allow these corner cutters to pump out unqualified divers. And with the advent of online instruction it seems they not only allow it but encourage and try to make a buck off of it also.

 

[RiverRat]

Would you permit your loved ones to learn to dive this way? I would not.

Fortunately there are a few shops out there trying to make a difference. I'm currently taking some "hybrid" courses that try to bridge the gaps. In preparation to start some training in another agency. While I haven't bought into everything just yet, I'm just happy to start learning some more advanced stuff to help bring my diving to the next level. I'm really pumped for the training and I'm curious to see how it pans out across the wide variety of students that are in my class. Some are OW with only 5 dives up to DM like me with about 150+ to a commercial diver with over 300 dives.

 

[RiverRat]

Both experience diving in a wide variety of conditions, and experience in dealing with students, such as one gains by assisting classes and leading dives as a DM.

I totally agree. When I signed up for DM I was under the impression it was a mentorship. You know, find a MENTOR to dive with, learn from, train with and instruct with. While that was true to some degree, the push was on early to IDC. IDC is money, then you get sucked into the flow, get assimilated, bring in more OW, DM and IDC. I was even told by my instructor I had a lot more "real" experience with students than the new instructors I went to DM training with. That's pretty sad when a DM is more qualified (experience wise) to teach than a new instructor. Nothing against all the good instructors out there. Just the sloppy ones. Not me, I'm happy where I'm at for now. Getting in more dives and some more advanced training.

 

[neil]

Would you permit your loved ones to learn to dive this way?

PADI doesn't consider that a legitimate question regarding scuba instruction, and has (or HAD) an article included in the IDC Candidates Workbook debunking the "loved ones" criterion for certification. I was sorry to see that when I did my cross-over. I keep it in mind anyway, no matter what agency I certify through.

 

[Blitz]

I don't think that any scuba course should be a guarenteed pass. Ever.

 

[diverdown247]

The individual marketing the class could guarantee all day long. It doesn't override the fact that when a candidate signs the paperwork for the class there is a dislcaimer that states: Taking a course does not guarantee certification.

It should be in the liability waiver and student folder.

Wouldn't a "guaranteed pass" make you leary about the quality of instruction as well as the instructor?

 

[Thalassamania]

PADI doesn't consider that a legitimate question regarding scuba instruction, and has (or HAD) an article included in the IDC Candidates Workbook debunking the "loved ones" criterion for certification. I was sorry to see that when I did my cross-over. I keep it in mind anyway, no matter what agency I certify through.

Is anyone surprised by PADI's opinion on the topic? But then PADI also put something out that redefined the word "mastery" when called on it.

... Wouldn't a "guaranteed pass" make you leary about the quality of instruction as well as the instructor?

Yes!