Dive Accident Insurance Limitations

[therookie]

New diver here, currently uninsured, reminded by this thread to get back to my insurance shopping. Reviewing the FAQ on the website for DiveAssure Worldwide, I found this question and its answer:

Q: What’s not covered?
A: The policy isn’t designed to cover everything. Take the time to read the terms and conditions of your program to review coverages.
Here are the main things that aren’t covered:
Any dive which takes you below your current qualification limits.
Anything mentioned in the General Exclusions.
Any non-recreational dive.

(The italics are mine)

I noticed it says "qualification", not "certification". So in the light of the many comments in this thread I contacted DiveAssure Worldwide through their website with this question:

The wording in the FAQ leaves me feeling that with my AOW certification I would not be covered for a dive that went even slightly below 100 feet. Could you please clarify the coverage specifically with respect to the depth at which a potential open-circuit recreational scuba diving related accident occurs?

The response, received by email early this morning:

To address your concerns, DiveAssure policies do not cover diving beyond a diver's certification limits unless the diver is actively participating in a training course for a higher certification level.

It seems clear enough to me from that response that "certification limits" is interpreted by DiveAssure Worldwide (can't speak to any other regions - my question was specifically related to the division that covers my place of residence as defined by DiveAssure) as referring to my PADI AOW certification that I have received training and have demonstrated the skills necessary to dive to a depth of 30 metres / 100 feet. I intepret their response as stating that diving below that depth is not covered.

 

[boulderjohn]

It seems clear enough to me from that response that "certification limits" is interpreted by DiveAssure Worldwide (can't speak to any other regions - my question was specifically related to the division that covers my place of residence as defined by DiveAssure) as referring to my PADI AOW certification that I have received training and have demonstrated the skills necessary to dive to a depth of 30 metres / 100 feet. I intepret their response as stating that diving below that depth is not covered.

That's how I would understand it as well. Reading that, I cannot understand why anyone would choose DiveAssure.

 

[tursiops]

That's how I would understand it as well. Reading that, I cannot understand why anyone would choose DiveAssure.

In addition, DiveAssure covers you outside your country of residence, not inside.

 

[therookie]

In addition, DiveAssure covers you outside your country of residence, not inside.

That seems to be dependent on your country, or in the case of the United States, state of residence. From their website:

For residents of: AK, AR, AS, CO, GU, LA, MD, ME, MN, MT, NV, NM, NY, NC, MP, OR, PA, PR, TT, UT, VT, VI, WA, CANADA

For US Residents: Coverage is valid outside of home country, worldwide.

For Canadian Residents: Coverage is valid domestically and worldwide.

But for US residents of : AL, AZ, CA, CT, DC, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, MA, MI, MO, MS, NE, NH, NJ, ND, OH, OK, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, VA, WI, WV, WY

Coverage is valid domestically and worldwide.

Seems to depend on which insurance company is actually underwriting the policy.

For my country of residence, coverage is also valid domestically and worldwide.

 

[therookie]

Reading that, I cannot understand why anyone would choose DiveAssure.

Basing the decision strictly on this one point, I have a hard time understanding it too, at least in my circumstances.

If I had "something official from a licensed instructor working with a recognized training agency that I had received training for and had demonstrated the skills necessary for a dive to a depth of 40m/130ft" (a long-winded way of a single word starting with "c" but choosing my words carefully to avoid misinterpretation by some) that I could show to a dive operator or insurer then it would be a moot point - I would be covered below 30m/100ft. But I don't, and the response from the customer service agent made it clear that the only exception would be if I were actively in the process of receiving said training or demonstrating said skills when the dive accident occurred.

That raises a number of questions in my mind - I'm imagining a scenario where I'm diving with my also-AOW-certified buddy at 29m and her BCD suddenly blows out and she starts sinking. I go deeper to chase her to make sure she can work through the problem - we go down to 32/33/34+m before I can catch her and we work through it and get ourselves safely to the surface with all the necessary stops. But I incur a DCS hit in the process anyway and need treatment in a chamber. Am I covered? I don't know for a certainty that DiveAssure would deny my claim - insurance adjusters definitely have latitude and in this case they might decide to pay it out anyway even though "technically" they might not have to. But based on the strict wording I also don't know that they wouldn't deny it, and that definitely is a red flag for me.

However, at least for divers living outside of the US and Canada, it seems that DiveAssure has much more generous benefit limits than DAN does - four times as much in some categories. For some that might be a reason to choose DiveAssure over DAN - accepting the risks of the depth restriction in favor of the benefits of a higher payout. Or, judging from past posts on ScubaBoard from members living in Quebec, Canada, at least at one point not long ago DAN could not provide insurance to members living in Quebec (not terribly surprising - there is a long list of things especially when it comes to anything remotely approaching legal issues where the laws in Quebec are wildly different from the rest of Canada, with a huge impact on a wide range of consumer products). A diver living in QC would have no choice but to choose DiveAssure over DAN at that point in time for dive accident insurance needs. (Side note - that appears to have changed now. DAN Canada's FAQ now has a line that specifically says "DAN World is now able to offer membership and dive accident insurance to Quebec residents.")

What I honestly dislike about DiveAssure International is that on the surface they say that there is no depth limit (see the wording on the Diving Insurance page under "Depth Limit") but when you drill down into the specifics of the Terms and Conditions you see that isn't actually the whole truth. Intentional or not, that is very misleading, and makes that red flag I mentioned that much larger and brighter.

 

[Blackcrusader]

New diver here, currently uninsured, reminded by this thread to get back to my insurance shopping. Reviewing the FAQ on the website for DiveAssure Worldwide, I found this question and its answer:


(The italics are mine)

I noticed it says "qualification", not "certification". So in the light of the many comments in this thread I contacted DiveAssure Worldwide through their website with this question:



The response, received by email early this morning:



It seems clear enough to me from that response that "certification limits" is interpreted by DiveAssure Worldwide (can't speak to any other regions - my question was specifically related to the division that covers my place of residence as defined by DiveAssure) as referring to my PADI AOW certification that I have received training and have demonstrated the skills necessary to dive to a depth of 30 metres / 100 feet. I intepret their response as stating that diving below that depth is not covered.

I emailed dive assure and asked them what the certification limit for PADI OW was. They could not tell me if it was the restricted depth of a training dive pre certiification or post certification where PADI OW is certified to the 40m recreational depth limit which was what PADI certified me to in 1986.

So if not sure get DAN insurance as it covers OW to 40m on a basic level and to deeper depths on higher level packages. Dive Assure wrote claiming they have no depth limitations then come along with your cert level.

 

[Blackcrusader]

In addition, DiveAssure covers you outside your country of residence, not inside.

When I asked DAN about my coverage for Taiwan the reply was that I had to be diving 80km away from where I lived.

 

[therookie]

So if not sure get DAN insurance

I have not actually conclusively ruled out either one yet - just a red flag has been raised investigating the coverage that DiveAssure provides. I have a similar question out to DAN World, not doubting your comment here or that of the OP but simply because it appears that for many dive insurance products the coverage and rules varies region by region worldwide, and I want to make sure I have the information relevant to my place of residence.

There is another insurance product that has come out of my investigation, not available to residents of the United States or Canada so posting it here primarily for those reading this from outside those countries, called DiveAssist.

Under General Conditions the first point mentioned is this:

Recreational Diving
Recreational Diving is carried out in accordance with the guidelines and recommendations for safe diving practices as established by the Authoritative Diving Bodies or under training approved by the Authoritative Diving Bodies and You are Medically Fit to Dive , however:
We accept that being a certified recreational diver does not necessarily make You qualified for all challenging dives. The Scuba Diving Certifying Associations (Authoritative Diving Bodies) recommend that You increase Your diving depths and experience by gradual progression and log them as proof of Your experience.
A Conversely We accept that there will be many recreational SCUBA divers who are qualified to dive certain challenging dives by way of logged experience but may not be certified to engage in these challenging dives.
B In all claims situations attaching to this policy We will consider both Your diver certifications and Your logged dive experience before coming to a decision.

And under General Exclusions:

Any diving:
A that is not carried out in accordance with the guidelines and recommendations for safe Recreational Diving practices as established by the Authoritative Diving Bodies
B That breaches Your Authoritative Diving Bodies depth recommendations associated with Your certification and /or Your provable experience by way of Your logged dive records.
C over 130 metres in depth unless expressly previously agreed in writing by the Administrator following a written submission
D without the correct diver certification and/or lack of provable experience by way of Your logged dive records

(Italics, as usual, are mine. Weird capitalization is all theirs - I'm sure it is related to the definitions of the terms at the beginning of the document)

That seems well thought out, at least. Quite different from both DAN and DiveAssure. Somewhere in between the two when it comes to depth limits, is my take on it, based on my understanding of the response to my own email from DiveAssure (which in turn seems substantially different from the one that you received)

I believe it would be less migraine-inducing to delve into the intricate details of the "Optimal Buoyancy Calculator" calculations prepared some years ago by a certain tinkerer in brass that is a long-time SB member than to try to figure out what insurance companies are actually saying and meaning in their policies , but I'm certainly grateful for this thread that has reminded me that I really need to get insurance from somebody before my next dive trip and reigniting the investigation process.

 

[therookie]

I have diveassure and it has no depth limit except it states that your intended dive should be within your certification/standards.

* You must perform all dives (a) according to the level of Your certification and (b) in strict adherence to the standards and
procedures set up by Your certifying agency (provided it is listed below) for the type and depth of the dive You make. You must never
plan to exceed the maximum depth and/or bottom time set by Your certifying agency for this type of dive.

For me thats fair enough. I read that as if i by accident exceed my planned depth (down current navigational error, running after buddy whatever) im still ok. But if i plan to do a dive to 70m on al single 80 im not covered.

TLDR; As expressed to me by a customer service representative from DiveAssure, my "depth limit" (defined as the depth to which a recognized agency has officially confirmed that I have received training from a qualified instructor and demonstrated the skills necessary to dive safely to) is not a "hard" limit, the breaching of which automatically invalidates coverage under their policies.

(Even the TLDR; is too long!)

In order to understand their process, I presented two hypothetical scenarios where I as a PADI AOW diver might exceed my "depth limit" and incurred a DCS hit requiring chamber treatment: one where I joined a group that planned a wreck dive initially to 35m and then shallowing up, respecting all stops; the other a dive planned and executed at 29m but an equipment failure resulted in an emergency situation that took us to a depth of 35m before we could recover and safely return to the surface, respecting all stops. In other words: same max depth, same outcome, is the coverage (or more specifically, the lack thereof) the same?

The response was that in the first scenario, coverage would likely not be provided, due to the intentional nature of the dive to a depth beyond my "depth limit". However, claims adjusters take into account the specific circumstances of each case where "depth limits" are exceeded and reasonable extenuating factors will be considered, so a claim in the second scenario would not automatically be denied.

Although the CSR did not specifically state it, the operative word in the Description of Coverage (ugh, I've been reading this stuff so much this week that I am beginning to Capitalize the way that They do!) appears to be "plan". So I now read that Description of Coverage the same way that the member quoted above does.

 

[tursiops]

@therookie Could you please boil down all your rambling posts to a succinct summary? Thanks.