Help with gear configuration for Intro to Cave class.

[jonnythan]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
I fail to see how the classes I've take have any bearing on this discussion. Dive Sherpa said he teaches DIR, I've pointed out that he's lying. I'm certainly not the ultimate source when it comes to DIR, but any idiot can go and look at the wkpp or gue pages and see that solo diving and DIR simply don't mix.

I don't see why this is such a big deal, and I don't understand why someone would want to claim to teach DIR when they obviously don't. The only reason I can come up with, is that then this person could also teach those people who want to learn how to dive DIR. This is dishonest.

What I also find suspicious is that Dive Sherpa will only dive DIR if he's being paid, and charges twice as much for DIR classes. This means that most of the time he does not dive DIR. How could he possibly teach a style of diving that he normally doesn't practice?

I would love to lay this to rest, but I don't think that it's ok for someone to teach a certain style of diving if they don't know anything about it. This is not golf. It's life support. Misleading people in this sport is dishonest and dangerous.

Mike obviously doesn't want to listen, but maybe others will.

Man, I'm getting tired of this. Quit attacking Mike. I don't know the guy [nearly as well as I'd like], but from reading his posts here for almost two years and I don't think I've ever seen anyone more dedicated to fun, safe diving and isntruction.

You obviously know even less about Mike than I do, and you're making yourself sound like a know-nothing a**.

 

[MrBlue]

Can we step back and assess the situation for a second here?

This is what is the worst about the GUE/DIR situation; the 'sockpuppets' and the anti-DIR group.

On one hand we have the 'Sockpuppets' who kiss a** of the 'higher levels' and spout out all that they either learned at a DIR-F class or who failed to get their ticket punched in a T1 or C1 class and those who hate either GUE, DIR or certain individuals that have put them down on the internet because of their 'strokness' and diving habits.

Mike or sherpa or whomever made a comment that ruffled some feathers and IMHO was inappropriate of 'good conduct'. Bashing DIR and indirectly GUE by making some off-handed remarks that now he thinks was just 'fun' was inappropriate. Sure, he took the bait and struck at an easy target. Just as some GUE, DIR folks could have struck at the 'put another dollar in' or 'Total diving incompetence' lines.

This is the problem with the whole DIR/GUE debate, there always will be some 'sockpuppet' willing to take on 'all' to defend the diving concept that they embrace. They take the 'bait' and then make everyone that subscribes to the philosphy look like idiots and cult members. This has got to stop.

You'll notice in thread no one made comment that PADI or TDI is a substandard organization and that either organization has had their share of 'problems'. Yet the 'easy shot' was taken at DIR with the comment of 'double the price' and 'I'll use XYZ shop for the non DIR students and ABC shop for the DIR students".

I say, get a hold of yourselves. This is stupid, childish, and downright moronic.

Somehow this thread has made it over to the Quest list among others and the legion of 'sockpuppets' over there have decided that it is their destiny to defend all that is good and right in DIR in this thread. That is just crazy.

There are alot of fingers to point at people on this thread and a few are guilty of bad judgment or even worse a terrible sense of humor.

Many times I hear people saying that they wish the whole us vs them debate would just die down and everyone could enjoy diving (it is an enjoyable sport, isn't it?). Personally I've seen the pro-DIR rhetoric die down some on this board, maybe it's time to calm down the anti-DIR campaign? What sense is there to rattle the sockpuppets cages? We're all here to enjoy our hobbies and passions of the 'deep'.

Before I step off my soabbox, Yes, it does matter what GUE courses you have passed when posting in a thread such as this, it helps seperate the wheat from the chaff. If you are zealously defending something, it would be nice to know from what experience level you speak. The internet is full of blowhards and wannabees and it's tough to figure out what to believe and what is Bulls***t. If you talk the talk you better be able to provide backup.

That being said. Everyone, get over yourselves, and concentrate on why you came to this board......I'll give you a hint...it was probably to share your love of diving with others....

Soapbox rant off and flame suit on.

--MRB

 

[Braunbehrens]

Spectre once bubbled...


Please explain this comment.

So you are saying that there is no way someone can go through and learn the DIR system, and choose not to use it?

I'm not saying thats the case here, but stating that someone can't understand the DIR system because they dive solo is rediculous. It's like saying a pilot can't understand helicopters because he flies jets...

No, it's like saying you can't teach astronomy if you think the earth is flat.

This whole thread started because DiveSherpa said he teaches DIR. He has told me privately that he doesn't, and I hope he makes a post to that effect. This will lay the issue to rest.

If you guys are interested in DIR I suggest you check it out yourself, instead of trying to argue about why someone can't teach it if they obviously don't believe any of the precepts. If you don't think that it's the right way to dive, then why the hell would you want to teach it?

I don't see where I have attacked Mike. I said he doesn't want to listen to what I have to say. I think even Mike would agree with that statement.

Let's not blow this whole thing out of proportion.

 

[jonnythan]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
This whole thread started because DiveSherpa said he teaches DIR.

No, he didn't.

Divesherpa stated that he taught a course in DIR "style," then elaborated and specified what aspects of what is commonly known as DIR he includes in his course.

Get a grip.

 

[Divesherpa]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


No, it's like saying you can't teach astronomy if you think the earth is flat.

This whole thread started because DiveSherpa said he teaches DIR. He has told me privately that he doesn't, and I hope he makes a post to that effect. This will lay the issue to rest.



Let's not blow this whole thing out of proportion.

To put this into perspective, read the ****ing thread. I removed the joke that was so offensive as well as clearly stating that I don't teach DIR courses, but for $72,000, I will, even if I have to hire one of the GUE instructors to help.

Mr. Blue, you are right. What I said was inappropriate and obviously does the dive community little good. I retract the statement.

Braunbrehrens, to say that someone can understand DIR and opt not to use it is BS. The number times that I've seen GUE instructors visual while scootering Ginnie is staggering. Members of GUE also sidemount and have done no-mount dives.

Cheers and safe diving (and have F-U-N)
Jamie Rumph
If you have any more questions or threats, call me. My number is posted on Quest.

 

[Braunbehrens]

MrBlue once bubbled...
Can we step back and assess the situation for a second here?

This is what is the worst about the GUE/DIR situation; the 'sockpuppets' and the anti-DIR group.
SNIP
Before I step off my soabbox, Yes, it does matter what GUE courses you have passed when posting in a thread such as this, it helps seperate the wheat from the chaff. If you are zealously defending something, it would be nice to know from what experience level you speak. The internet is full of blowhards and wannabees and it's tough to figure out what to believe and what is Bulls***t. If you talk the talk you better be able to provide backup.

I think your analysis is wrong. This is not a debate about whether DIR is better or worse than any other way of diving. Of course I dive DIR, and there is a reason why I do. In this case, however, the debate started because Dive Sherpa said he teaches DIR classes, yet he is not qualified to do so. That's all. It turns out that he doesn't, great, we can forget about it.

I still don't see how your diving experience has anything to do with the topic of this thread. If I was telling you how to dive, then you could ask me what my experience level is, and I would tell you. However, I'm not telling you how to dive, I'm simply saying that Dive Sherpa is not qualified to teach DIR. I think any reasonably impartial person would agree with that statement, whether or not they dive. I also think that Dive Sherpa agrees, since he has told me in a private message that it was a joke an that he doesn't teach DIR.

There are a lot of blowhards on the net, but there is also a lot of machismo in diving. I think that machismo in this sport is eventually fatal. This is one of the reasons I don't like to compare what I've done and what others have done. Diving is not a competitive sport.

 

[Divesherpa]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
I would warn anybody away from "Dive sherpa". He sounds very dishonest, and it seems to me he just wants to make more money by "also teaching DIR".

One last thing, Braunbehrens.

The whole concept of diving and having fun: try to remember that while you are in the water. If you have fun, you will dive more often.

thank you very much!

 

[MrBlue]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


I think your analysis is wrong. This is not a debate about whether DIR is better or worse than any other way of diving. Of course I dive DIR, and there is a reason why I do. In this case, however, the debate started because Dive Sherpa said he teaches DIR classes, yet he is not qualified to do so. That's all. It turns out that he doesn't, great, we can forget about it.

I still don't see how your diving experience has anything to do with the topic of this thread. If I was telling you how to dive, then you could ask me what my experience level is, and I would tell you. However, I'm not telling you how to dive, I'm simply saying that Dive Sherpa is not qualified to teach DIR. .

Please.... You're not telling us how to dive, yet your telling us who to or not to take instruction from. What is the difference?

I dive DIR and have taken GUE courses, but I'm not telling anyone that they have to dive DIR or take classes from a specific individual. But that's not the point of my post.

The point of my post, in case you missed it is that this whole 'in-fighting' and fighting among the pro-DIR and anti-DIR crowd is getting us nowhere. How tough is that to understand?

Like it or not, the DIR camp has been tarnished by certain individuals that think that by bashing and condeming everyone that is not in their camp they will somehow 'win'. You're not adding to that at all.

People are 'swung' by experience not by parroting what others have said and by spouting the party line. Whether your direct experience is applicable in your eyes is not the issue...like it or not, people take education as a voice of experience. It's not right, but that's how the american system is. Take the issue of college grads vs the non college grads when it comes to work qualifications. 9 times out of 10 the 'public' thinks the college grad has more experience and is therefore more desirable for the position.

It's no different here. If you can spiel off a list of GUE courses you've taken and passed then you somehow are more DIR than the guy who has 20 years experience and dove with Bill Main and Sheck Exely. It's too bad, but that's they way it is....unless of course you hold a world recod at wakulla if you know what I mean. Unfortunately you don't have that name recognitions and you have to suffer with the rest of us.

To get back to the point of my post, I'm telling everyone to step back, take a breath and get a hold of themselves. There have been many wrongs, but *****ing about it and thumping their chests aren't going to get us anywhere (other than being hated by the anti DIR folks.....and guess what? that's there secret master plan).

 

[Braunbehrens]

MrBlue once bubbled...


Please.... You're not telling us how to dive, yet your telling us who to or not to take instruction from. What is the difference?

Like it or not, the DIR camp has been tarnished by certain individuals that think that by bashing and condeming everyone that is not in their camp they will somehow 'win'. You're not adding to that at all.

I'm not telling anyone whom to take instruction from. I'm saying Dive Sherpa is not qualified to teach DIR. If you still want to take classes from him, then that's your business. If he claims to teach DIR but isn't qualified, then that's dishonest, regardless of MY experience level.

I was hoping he would make a post where he says what he said in the private message he sent me, but it looks like he'd rather do some name calling. Doesn't really matter, as long as he doesn't actually teach a DIR class.

I am not in the habit of "bashing and condemning", and I personally feel that being friendly and explaining is a more effective approach. Please show me where I bashed and condemned, so that I can avoid doing so in the future.

I'm still not convinced that my dive experience has anything to do with this. You point out yourself that it is misleading. Anyone who doesn't know what they are talking about will eventually trip over their own feet. You can fool some people sometime, but you can't fool all the people all of the time.

 

[Braunbehrens]

Divesherpa once bubbled...


One last thing, Braunbehrens.

The whole concept of diving and having fun: try to remember that while you are in the water. If you have fun, you will dive more often.

****# you very much!

I'm sorry we can't lay this issue to rest, it would be very easy for you to simply say that you don't teach DIR, and that the whole thing was a joke. If this is indeed the case, then you are not dishonest and greedy. It would all come down to me having misinterpreted a dubious joke.

If this is what happened, then I apologize sincerely. I think DIR is the way to go, but if you want to dive and teach something else then that is your perogative.

So which is it? Do you or do you not teach DIR?