Help with gear configuration for Intro to Cave class.

[MikeFerrara]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


I am not interested in the liability of any teaching credential, it is not a question of "effort", and I resent the implication. My info is not third hand, it is what PADI instructors have told me they can and can't do.

If you ask me PADI should REQUIRE some of these skills, and stop watering down the instruction. The way it's done now compared to when I was taught is even worse, and it was bad when I was certified.

Well they could require it but...you didn't read what I wrote. I think I explained the manufacturer, dive shop, agency relationship.


It's all marketing BS

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...



There are alternatives.

So what will it be Mike? Will it be an open business model in which the cost-shifting can't work any more (and thus it will "go away" due to simple market factors) or will it be kvetching?

Well, I'm afraid that soon it will likely no longer be my problem.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


You really are trying to pick a fight. Sorry, find someone else to fight with. I've said my piece.

Yeah, whatever.

What I'm trying to do is find out the basis for your opinion. Once again, you've declined.

What we do know is that you've got no teaching credentials. Which makes me wonder why we should listen to anything you've got to say about teaching.

 

[Genesis]

Well, I'm afraid that soon it will likely no longer be my problem.

An unfortunate one, IMHO, but one that while I may disagree with you I will respect.

(To choose not to play in what you believe to be a crooked game is an honorable decision, even if its not the way I'd go about it.... )

 

[MikeFerrara]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...


Yeah, whatever.

What I'm trying to do is find out the basis for your opinion. Once again, you've declined.

What we do know is that you've got no teaching credentials. Which makes me wonder why we should listen to anything you've got to say about teaching.

You know it's one thing to compare the average OW diver to someone who has done DIRF or any one else who has made an effort to learn. I will agree also that I've seen a bunch of divers doing technical dives who didn't look to good. OTOH, hanging out around the Florida caves everyone looks good in the water with the exception of a few students and a couple of slobs maybe. The DIR crowd does't seem to stand out much at all down there. They might be able to argue someones use of a computer or their use of a double wing or something but the skill argument goes right out the window. If they don't have the hords of newbis crawling around on the bottom to make them look good they wouldn't be niticed at all.

It is a change in philosophy to teach "cave skills" in the beginning though. The agencies have not removed those requirements. They were never there in the first place. I do it but I'm losing my asz doing it.

The things that have been removed from traditional training have nothing to do with trim, buoyancy control buddy skills or any of that. I think quality has gone down even since I started but I think it's because volume has gone up.

It's funny really. When I first came on this board I had never heard much about DIR before. If you search this board for some of my early posts you'll see that I had a hell of a time figuring out what the big deal was. All these guys preaching trim and bc and whatever. I had a heck of a time figuring out what was different. Then...it hit like a rock.

I've said it before, putting what I refer to as cave skills in front of strugling, new or casual OW divers was brilliant. A marketing campaign comparing them is even more brilliant.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...


An unfortunate one, IMHO, but one that while I may disagree with you I will respect.

(To choose not to play in what you believe to be a crooked game is an honorable decision, even if its not the way I'd go about it.... )

Your giving me too much credit. There may not be a choice. LOL. I'm broke.

 

[O-ring]

You know it's one thing to compare the average OW diver to someone who has done DIRF or any one else who has made an effort to learn. I will agree also that I've seen a bunch of divers doing technical dives who didn't look to good. OTOH, hanging out around the Florida caves everyone looks good in the water with the exception of a few students and a couple of slobs maybe. The DIR crowd does't seem to stand out much at all down there.

I kinda figured squared away people would stand out less down there, where the environment necessitates the skills be at a certain level. Up here...man oh man...you would have a field day on some of our dive boats.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

That is certainly true. I cringe at some of the divers I've seen.

But the fact remains that agency standards do not prevent instructors from teaching proper skills.

 

[MikeFerrara]

O-ring once bubbled...

I kinda figured squared away people would stand out less down there, where the environment necessitates the skills be at a certain level. Up here...man oh man...you would have a field day on some of our dive boats.

I know what you mean. But I don't see it as a DIR vs non-DIR issue. Basic dive skills should common between all dive systems.

They still find plenty to argue about down there. A freind was at Peacock doing a class and some one came up and started telling him he was going to die if he didn't take a GUE class. He thought it was a GUE instructor but he didn't get a name.
I've been lucky so far. I can usually spot the ones with an attitude comming and avoid them. Most of the cave divers I've run in to are friendly enough but a few project their attitude as far as the eye can see.