Help with gear configuration for Intro to Cave class.

[Braunbehrens]

Genesis once bubbled...


GI is the biggest name-caller of them all, and if there is someone who DEFINES GUE, its him.

The solution is for JJ and the others who are tired of the reputation they're getting to get rid of GI, but that'll happen about the same time he is pushing up daisies.

Organizations that cannot see beyond their founders to kick out those who were at one time very important, but now are a hinderance to the organization, have a serious internal issue that will prevent them from growing beyond a certain point.

Its a common problem with "small endeavors" that get big.

GI has nothing at all to do with GUE. He is not a founder. He did however come up with DIR, and as such it's his baby, and he gets to say what is and what isn't DIR.

If anyone doesn't like that, I suggest they come up with their own system and name it. They can then say what is and what isn't XYZ.

There is a reason why DIR is even discussed on boards such as this one. Whether you agree with the way GI spreads the message or not, the fact is that the system he came up with works, and works for everything from extreme cave to shallow reef diving.

As I keep telling people, there are many soft spoken friendly DIR advocates who are happy to explain the system. Nobody HAS to deal with GI.

I have had many fights with him on Quest and Techdiver, yet he has never held a grudge, and always answered my private queries in a friendly way. What's more, his advice has always been top notch.

I have a huge folder in my email program that is full of messages from GI that are pure gold. He does do the bashing, but he also posts very informative and useful information.

JJ and the rest are great guys, and when they post it's always useful, but they hardly ever do post. If it wasn't for GI none of this info would have made it to the masses.

 

[MrBlue]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...

It's not worth trying to explain this stuff to Genesis, he's just trying to stir things up.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...




There is a reason why DIR is even discussed on boards such as this one. Whether you agree with the way GI spreads the message or not, the fact is that the system he came up with works, and works for everything from extreme cave to shallow reef diving.

I can show you caves where it won't work.

As I keep telling people, there are many soft spoken friendly DIR advocates who are happy to explain the system. Nobody HAS to deal with GI.

Yes there are and I know and dive with some of em. And then there is Nick who thinks PADI has a cave class. As far as GI goes someone needs to deal with him. Really it should be a parant or gardian though. I think he's just bitter because they dedicated the stairs at Peacock to Sheck. LOL

JJ and the rest are great guys, and when they post it's always useful, but they hardly ever do post. If it wasn't for GI none of this info would have made it to the masses.

Yes but when you hang with bad people it makes you look bad. I got suspended from school one because I was with the wrong guy.

 

[Braunbehrens]

MrBlue once bubbled...
I'm sure you have good intentions and help out and try to educate those folks who are truly interested in DIR and GUE. I'm also sure that you know what you are talking about.

My apologies for jumping on your Sh*t, I guess my ire about Dir-F wonders got the better of me.

Thanks Mr. Blue, no hard feelings. These issues do raise everyone's tempers.

It's funny how this always happens. You should hear the audio engineers cuss each other out over digital audio issues!

Ha ha.

Well, we are all divers interested in diving safely and having fun....well, most of us. Once in a blue moon someone pops up who just has a screw loose, but everyone usually agrees on that one.

 

[MrBlue]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


Thanks Mr. Blue, no hard feelings. These issues do raise everyone's tempers.

Thanks. It's easy to get carried away when sitting in front of a keyboard and monitor....especially when you haven't gotten to go diving in a few months....damn winter.

 

[Braunbehrens]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I can show you caves where (DIR) won't work.

Yes there are and I know and dive with some of em. And then there is Nick who thinks PADI has a cave class. As far as GI goes someone needs to deal with him. Really it should be a parant or gardian though. I think he's just bitter because they dedicated the stairs at Peacock to Sheck. LOL

Let's not make this thread about GI. He is who he is, and nobody can deny his contribution to diving. Whether you like him or like the way he deals with people, is another story.

I'm sure there are places where only squirrels can get in. I wouldn't dive those either ;-)

 

[MikeFerrara]

MrBlue once bubbled...
Sure.

For some reason I thought you were referring to caves that you *could* dive DIR but for some reason on other the diver thought it might be 'better' to dive in another style.

I understand the whole sump thing, and caves that are no-mount or side-mount and I understand that those type of caves/conditions are not DIR.

I read Duncan's posts over at cavediver.net and Have read many articles and books about 'other styles' of diving. I'm not a brainwashed DIR fanatic. But that's off topic.

Let's pursue this line of thinking though. Are there caves, where DIR *could* be used that you or someone else considers another gear configuration safer? and what are those conditions and reasons to re-configure yourself (no sumps, no-mount, or side-mount as we know you can't DIR in thos environments).

I would love to discuss that but I would also like to give Paul a chance to address my questions about training, if he's planning on it.

 

[Braunbehrens]

VaJames once bubbled...



This is the specific reason that I will not take ANY of their classes. I feel that they have a lot to offer but the majority of their group are DIRF graduates who think that they are eating dinner with GI himself. Face it, the new guys are making it really hard for the DIR originators to gain any head wind or have a "respectful" business. I spent 4 years in the Marines with a lot better people than your everyday DIRF graduate and I refuse to bow down and kiss their a$$. If JJ would clean up the trouble makers I would be the first one on the phone to sign up for DIRF and Tech 1, but until the snotty nose little $hits that are out parading as being gods are taken care of, I will not be part of that organization.

James
:getsome:

Well, that is your loss. I don't look at it as being "part of an organization".

Let me ask you this, if you were drowning and someone threw you a life raft saying "here you go, you moron", would you rather drown, or would you take the raft?

All the GUE instructors I've ever talked to have been very friendly and helpful.

What it comes down to is the message. Either it's worth listening to or it isn't. If it is, and you ignore it because you don't like the guy who's delivering it, then that's not a very smart decision.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Braunbehrens]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I can ignore the snorkel thing but there are things in the standards that get in the way far more than a snorkel. Even so, with a little imagination (and experience) a good instructor can get it done

Something I find interesting is that most of the people who bash the traditional agencies don't even know what's wrong with the standards.
Mike

Mike, the snorkel interferes with long hose deployment. That is not a time when you want to get any interference.

I am not a PADI instructor, or for that matter any kind of dive instructor. The liability is not worth it for me.

As such I have little knowledge of the requirements of PADI classes. I have however taken a few PADI classes with reputable instructors. Same for TDI etc.

I can tell you from my experience and from talking to others that these classes are usually sorely lacking in almost all the skills needed, even for an open water certification.

If indeed you teach under these umbrella's, and if you indeed manage to work around these problems and teach your students such basics as clearing the mask mid water and so on, then I commend you for it. I know it must be quite difficult to do so.

I'm sure GUE will eventually come out with an open water class. In the meantime it is possible to take an SSI open water class from a GUE instructor and then move on to a Fundamentals class. This is what I would recommend.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


Let's not make this thread about GI. He is who he is, and nobody can deny his contribution to diving. Whether you like him or like the way he deals with people, is another story.

I don't want to make this about him but I keep hearing about what he has contributed to diving. Nobody has ever told me what the what is though. What has he contributed to diving?