Help with gear configuration for Intro to Cave class.

[VaJames]

As for this specific thread and your posts, I saw you 'pop up' and bash someone, then immediately go to quest to announce that you were in a 'fight' and have called them out on it, which seemed like a way to redeem yourself and show that you were a good follower. I hadn't seen you being active on this board or contributing anything in the past. On Quest I see what appears to be alot of A** kissing from you to the 'sockpuppet' gods.

This is the specific reason that I will not take ANY of their classes. I feel that they have a lot to offer but the majority of their group are DIRF graduates who think that they are eating dinner with GI himself. Face it, the new guys are making it really hard for the DIR originators to gain any head wind or have a "respectful" business. I spent 4 years in the Marines with a lot better people than your everyday DIRF graduate and I refuse to bow down and kiss their a$$. If JJ would clean up the trouble makers I would be the first one on the phone to sign up for DIRF and Tech 1, but until the snotty nose little $hits that are out parading as being gods are taken care of, I will not be part of that organization.

James
:getsome:

 

[wb416]

VaJames once bubbled...



This is the specific reason that I will not take ANY of their classes. I feel that they have a lot to offer but the majority of their group are DIRF graduates who think that they are eating dinner with GI himself. Face it, the new guys are making it really hard for the DIR originators to gain any head wind or have a "respectful" business. I spent 4 years in the Marines with a lot better people than your everyday DIRF graduate and I refuse to bow down and kiss their a$$. If JJ would clean up the trouble makers I would be the first one on the phone to sign up for DIRF and Tech 1, but until the snotty nose little $hits that are out parading as being gods are taken care of, I will not be part of that organization.

James
:getsome:

Keep in mind that you don't have to associate with any of the DIR.Net experts out there before, during, or after the class. So don't let that dissuade you. There are self-proclaimed experts in every crowd, but I don't let them discourage me from learning that affects my personal diving. The learning you're concerned about comes from the instructor, not the .Net crowd.

wb

 

[MrBlue]

You're missing out on outstading training and meeting some really fine human beings.

I think you'd find an entirely different class of people in the 'real' GUE organization.

One of the big problems is basing your opinion of GUE and DIR on a very small number (yet extremely loud) of divers that really haven't a clue.

If you can ignore the 'lemmings' and understand they are not worth dealing with, you really can't go wrong with GUE. The training is top notch and the instructors are simply amazing...not to mention they actually dive and not just teach all the time.

 

[Braunbehrens]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
The one I teach often results in a PADI card but it's my class not PADI's.

The problem is that it's hard to teach a good diving class while following PADI's guidelines, such as the snorkel requirement.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...


The problem is that it's hard to teach a good diving class while following PADI's guidelines, such as the snorkel requirement.

Well snorkels can get in the way but they don't effect trim too badly. LOL OTOH, I don't think it's a bad thing for a new diver to learn how to use a snorkel. After all they may want to go snorkeling sometime. It would be embarassing to have one of your students drown trying to use one. Many people, even instructors may be unaware that even though the snorkel is in the list of required equipment it can be left behind if there is a reason in classes besides OW. BTW, I got that info from a PADI training consultant.

I can ignore the snorkel thing but there are things in the standards that get in the way far more than a snorkel. Even so, with a little imagination (and experience) a good instructor can get it done

Something I find interesting is that most of the people who bash the traditional agencies don't even know what's wrong with the standards. Oh sure, they know what the instructors do wrong like keeping students kneeling on the bottom, only paying lip service to the buddy system ect... The standards don't tell them to do that though.

Mr. Braunbehrens can you list a few of the real problems with the standards? In general terms of course, it doesn't need to be word for word or anything. If you can name some do you have a way to work around them? Please don't say GUE is a solution because as far as I know there isn't any one packing a GUE OW card in their wallet. Any one who wants to train new divers has to buck up to PADI, SSI NAUI or one of them just like I do. That Nick guy made reference to the fact that sherp or PADI or whoever would mess up these students. We could point out how this hapens and how it's avoided. I've had these discussions many times here with many people but I don't get tired of it and your new here.

BTW, didnt Nick say in his e-mail that sherp was teaching a PADI DIR cave class? Someone brought up a PADI cave class anyway. You of course should realize that PADI doesn't have a cave class and they never have. If someone is only a PADI instructor they can't teach cave fake DIR or otherwise.

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yes, that's what Nick said over on quest

"PADI instructor advertising DIR cave classes. "
No PADI instructor can teach cave unless they teach for one of the cave agencies also. In that case I would call him a NACD instructor or a NSS-CDS instructor but why refer to him as a PADI cave instructor? Talk about messed up, they were just looking for something to get pissy about I think.

 

[Genesis]

I think you'd find an entirely different class of people in the 'real' GUE organization.

GI is the biggest name-caller of them all, and if there is someone who DEFINES GUE, its him.

The solution is for JJ and the others who are tired of the reputation they're getting to get rid of GI, but that'll happen about the same time he is pushing up daisies.

Organizations that cannot see beyond their founders to kick out those who were at one time very important, but now are a hinderance to the organization, have a serious internal issue that will prevent them from growing beyond a certain point.

Its a common problem with "small endeavors" that get big.

 

[MrBlue]

Genesis once bubbled...


GI is the biggest name-caller of them all, and if there is someone who DEFINES GUE, its him.

Yeah, sure he 'defines' the people of GUE...NOT. Get a clue...or are you just trying to incite the masses?

 

[Braunbehrens]

MrBlue once bubbled...

I'm fed up with the whole DIR/GUE bashing (both on the DIR/GUE part on on the anti-DIR/GUE part).

but that isn't what this was.

That is why folks ask 'to measure up' as you put it. It's that they want to know how much stock to put into what you are saying. Especially when you are acting as an 'expert' as to what is DIR and what isn't.

You don't need to be an expert to know that solo diving and DIR don't mix. DIR is a mindset, it's not just something you do once in a while, and it's not just a way to rig your kit.

We both know there are people out there who say they are DIR and have no clue what DIR is. And, more insidious than that are the people who have read the books and have never put any of the techniques into use in the water....yet they come off on the 'net as 'experts'.

There are a holes everywhere. That's just life.

As for this specific thread and your posts, I saw you 'pop up' and bash someone, then immediately go to quest to announce that you were in a 'fight' and have called them out on it, which seemed like a way to redeem yourself and show that you were a good follower.

Whatever. You obviously haven't been on quest long enough to see all the fights I've had with the big shots. I'm not interested in brown nosing or in picking fights. I'm interested in what is logical, and what works, and safety.

I hadn't seen you being active on this board or contributing anything in the past.

Even though I'm a bleeding newbie on this board I can see that I had about 50 posts when the thread started.

Seeing this behaviour I was curious as to if you were the real deal with the experience to behave the way you did and get away with it, or if you were on of the legions of sockpuppets. That is why I was curious as to your level of trainng within GUE and whether you are worth listening to.

I think most people are worth listening to. If it is apparent by their posts that they are newbies or misguided, then you help and explain. If they are more knowledgeable than you, you listen. I don't see too many people posting where this is not clear. It may not be clear to another newbie, but if you have been around the block once, it's obvious.

 

[MrBlue]

You're right that there are a-holes everywhere. And you're right that the intention of the post was not a pro-DIR vs anti-DIR debate....although it certainly was veiled (thinly I might add) to slam DIR and bait someone.

I've been around quest for a few years. To be honest, I'd probably not continue to subscribe as I delete 90% of the posts because they serve no educational content, but since GUE certification 'requires' (or strongly suggests) you subscribe, I keep on the list.

I've seen your 'fights with the big guys' and I've also seen some of the A** kissing that a good number of the 'regulars' on the list seem to participate in.

What rubbed me the wrong way, was the way you jumped into the thread (which in itself was a wecome thing, as someone needed to) but then posting on quest and letting everyone know that basically you were taking care of things. It just smacked of kissing up. And, for whatever reason it bugged me.

I'm sure you have good intentions and help out and try to educate those folks who are truly interested in DIR and GUE. I'm also sure that you know what you are talking about.

My apologies for jumping on your Sh*t, I guess my ire about Dir-F wonders got the better of me.