H valve set up ?

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A summary of my understanding of the H-valve.

What an H-valve does is provide redundancy of regulator stages, hoses, and o-rings in the event one should fail. It provides redundancy of the gas delivery system with the exception of tank valve connection at gas source.

A regulator can critically fail in two ways. Free flow which can’t be stopped and complete gas supply shutoff.

Free flow is the most common one by far. As pointed out it occurs most often, but not exclusively, in cold waters. Using a properly maintained good quality regulator with cold water kit if required and following cold water regulator protocol can greatly reduce the risk, but not eliminate it.

Complete gas supply shutoff appears to be very rare. Nevertheless, this is a matter of critical urgency. Improper service seems to be the biggest culprit here, based on what I have read and heard. Find a good technician or learn to do it very well yourself, and test the regulator after servicing. I do a few easy shallow dives with a redundant gas supply or buddy, since most problems will arise soon after improper service is performed. I put it through its paces, normal breathing, rapid, simultaneous octo/backup reg use, along with physically turning in every position. Vertical, horizontal, diagonal rotations. Too much? Oh well.

You also have the more common problems of o-rings, hose blowouts and quickly remedied freeflows.

The H-valve provides redundancy for all of these, assuming - you become competent in its operation. The downside to it is the addition of components which can malfunction, o-ring (s) and first stage, and an increase in operational complexity due to multiple valves. These negatives can be effectively managed through diligent checks, proper maintenance and good training, resulting in a net positive gain.

What the H-valve does not do is provide redundancy for tank valve failure where it connects to gas source. This is a very rare event that can completely shutoff gas supply. The valve orifice could become blocked, due to part breakage (I believe I heard or read this someplace) or more commonly loose matter inside tank. Flaking of tank wall due to corrosion. This loose matter is possibly more likely to shutoff or severely restrict gas flow by clogging the regulator first stage filter. (inside of regulator?) H-valve offers some protection here as both first stage regulators would have to be clogged to completely stop all gas flow. (Bare in mind that these are rare events which are difficult to correctly diagnose, and difficult to precisely calculate statistically. Meaning, the exact cause is often attributed through an educated assumption and expected occurrence is unknown.

Maintenance is once again of critical importance here. Reducing the risk to almost nil.

And it goes without saying, the H-valve does not provide for a redundant gas source.

This is the story of the H valve as I see it. Others are welcome to add or subtract. It is designed to reduce the risk of gas loss due to gas delivery system malfunction. It covers all the bases with the one aforementioned notable exception.

Optik, I am not an instructor. Nor a diver with decades of practice. Nor a diver with thousands of dives. I am just a diver learning to dive safely, just like you. I would not stop the analysis here with the gas delivery system, but consider the gas supply source as well for solo diving. For anything but extremely shallow dives under good conditions. Even then, I would still scrutinize this aspect, in order to gain a broad understanding of the subject, allowing me to make a decision to my satisfaction.
 
To emphasize what others have said, an H-valve is not sufficient IMHO to be considered a safe "redundant" set-up. I had considered an H-valve a few years ago, but elected for the pony bottle routine to give myself total redundancy. Reason- my OOA situation and controlled emergency ascent (posted elsewhere) resulted from a tank valve being completely blocked. An H-valve would go dead under this scenario and provide no backup.

Doc
 
I failed to mention that the H-Y valves do not provide burst disc redundancy.
 
Everyone out there should try this .

First, take a full tank to 30 or 40 feet.

Second, make your reg free flow by purging or tuneing it out.

Third, assent at a safe speed while breathing the free flowing reg.

now look at your presure gauge. How much gas is left?

Here's my point, It takes time to find and shut off the valves and that time can be used on the assent . Breathing from a free flowing reg is possible and the tank won't drain as fast as most people think it will.

P.S bring a pony and a buddy for this and let the gas role.
 
novadiver:
Everyone out there should try this .

First, take a full tank to 30 or 40 feet.

Second, make your reg free flow by purging or tuneing it out.

Third, assent at a safe speed while breathing the free flowing reg.

now look at your presure gauge. How much gas is left?

Breathing a free flowing reg is something that every diver should have practiced in their entry level training.

The one thing I'd mention here though is that we see a lot of free flows and they often result in a rapid ascents either due to panic or the fact that divers can't manage a free flow and control their buoyancy.
Here's my point, It takes time to find and shut off the valves and that time can be used on the assent . Breathing from a free flowing reg is possible and the tank won't drain as fast as most people think it will.

Any one who is diving an h-valve or manifolded doubles should be practiced at manipulating their valves and the offending valve can be shut down in just a few seconds. That will leave plenty of gas and a functioning reg for any kind of ascent that's required.
 
MikeFerrara:
Breathing a free flowing reg is something that every diver should have practiced in their entry level training.

The one thing I'd mention here though is that we see a lot of free flows and they often result in a rapid ascents either due to panic or the fact that divers can't manage a free flow and control their buoyancy.

Any one who is diving an h-valve or manifolded doubles should be practiced at manipulating their valves and the offending valve can be shut down in just a few seconds. That will leave plenty of gas and a functioning reg for any kind of ascent that's required.

It's all about options.

A blown burst plug leaves no options but assent.

A blown neck o-ring leaves no options but assent.

Gear failure of any kind leaves no option but to abort the dive and assend as safe as possible.

If my only options are being bent or being dead than I'll take the hit every time, But that's just me.

You mentioned that this is practiced in entry level training, why not advanced?

Skills that can save a life should be drilled on a regular basis.

Every member of scuba board is like familly to me, and just like all families we're bound to disagree.

Every dive is a training dive. and my post was to offer another option , not to offer the only option .
 
novadiver:
It's all about options.

A blown burst plug leaves no options but assent.

A blown neck o-ring leaves no options but assent.

Gear failure of any kind leaves no option but to abort the dive and assend as safe as possible.

If my only options are being bent or being dead than I'll take the hit every time, But that's just me.

You mentioned that this is practiced in entry level training, why not advanced?

Skills that can save a life should be drilled on a regular basis.

Every member of scuba board is like familly to me, and just like all families we're bound to disagree.

Every dive is a training dive. and my post was to offer another option , not to offer the only option .
I won't say that I personally know Mike, but from his posts I will tell you that when he talks about skills practiced in OW, he intends for that practice to be carried throughout the diver's career.

To tell the truth, when I got to my Advanced Nitrox (which is what I consider my "Advanced" course as my recreational advanced course wasn't all that great), I wasn't taught to breathe through it as much as switch regs and shut down the offender. Wait a minute or so and then re-open the tank valve to the offending regulator. This skill is a quick and simple one that I practice often. I have had one case where my dive buddy never knew that I had a free-flow as this method can be employed so smoothly and I practice it fairly often. Granted, my doubles are easier to do this with than my 120's with H-Valves but, I can and have done it with both.
 
Speaking of failure modes and emergency skills...

How many of the divers here have practiced breathing from a reg with a failed exhauset valve (constantly flooding with water) or feathering a valve to stretch the gas on a tank with a free flowing reg?
 
I used steel 120's with H-valves and a pony. This provides more backup than a standard tank valve and of course you have the real backup of a pony. You can do a pretty decent dive with a steel 120 and a pony. Doubles are better.

I think a few people really pegged the advantages and shortcomings of the H-valve route. Clearly it's better than a standard valve but falls short of the benefits of doubles. If I were you I would definitely get a pony for the very reasons that inspired you to get an H-valve. If you are going to use this system, learn to manipulate the valves. There are some valve nuances you should know and be familiar with.

--Matt
 
MikeFerrara:
Speaking of failure modes and emergency skills...

How many of the divers here have practiced breathing from a reg with a failed exhauset valve (constantly flooding with water) ....?

I,m not sure how you would go about this
 

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