Which agency should I join if I wish to become an Elite Diver?

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I don't know exactly what you mean by an elite diver. My dad was a professional diver for about 2 years I think, but he probably never went deeper than 50ft in a diving suit and most of his work would be 30 ft or less but it was very cold, hard and not that safe. Despite it being a reserve occupation he volunteered for the RAF and served in the middle east instead. Most of his diving was in one of those heavy suits with the big boots, breastplate and screw on helmet. Poor visibility and cold water was the norm in the north of England. He also did some diving with what I think was a crude rebreather. Some sort of canvas bag with a small oxygen cylinder. These dives were done in swimming trunks and the divers were greased with animal fat to reduce the effects of cold.
I have met a few North Sea (oil) saturation divers. They are regarded as top line / elite divers. They don't tend to spend long employed as saturation divers and many are soon looking for other employment.
 
Find the divers who manifest the type of diver you want to be. Emulate them. This could be gue or PADI or SSI or any agency.

There are different skillsets involved say between someone who teaches young and old and has a good time to the ultra focused person at 200m to someone who can take a group of divers on holiday safely when they only dive twice a year. All different skillsets. You need to find where you fit in the picture. You might say GUE is elite but actually they are also extremely safe. Maybe you want to be more hardcore? Maybe extreme dives aren't for you? Rebreather? Fun Diving? Cost?

Figure out where you want to be. Find someone who's there. Ask them to teach you.

Me I find a mixture of agencies works well. Different instructors offer different points of view. I've been trained SSI, TDI, Razor, GUE & PADI. Maybe more can't remember. Each offers its own different view point. No one is right or wrong.
 
The agency might matter. Most agency’s give minimal requirements, instructors might add stuff. I can imagine that a Naui instructor that is also a Cave2 diver gives a different cave class then one who isn’t.

Instructors adding stuff is a disappointing concept imho. My question is, “why would the instructor adding stuff want to teach an his or her incomplete program?" - and by incomplete I mean one where the instructor feels compelled to add stuff? How does the instructor (or student) know that what the instructor is adding is correct, right, or appropriate?

More importantly - Is it ethical for the instructor to add stuff? Where did the instructor get the ‘added stuff’ from? Did the source of the ‘added stuff’ get credit (money) for their intellectual property (IP)? Or did the instructor just 'steal' from another program (or another agency) to add to his or her insufficient program?

Why wouldn't the instructor instead want to teach the program from where he / she got the 'added stuff' from?

The way I have seen programs that allow for 'added stuff' be promoted is as though it's a positive, when in reality it is a negative imho - for the reasons I have presented above and more. Programs that allow for 'added stuff' means that no one's cert for that program from that agency is of equal value. The cert the person got from an instructor who 'added stuff' has the same exact value as the one another person got from an instructor who added no stuff, or the wrong added stuff. Ethically, the student's cert with 'added stuff' should have the value of the program the 'added stuff' was stolen from - but the source program cert was not credited or awarded!

The 'added stuff' argument is imho just an excuse to allow the "it's the instructor, not the agency" feel good non-competitive all schools are the same fallacy to continue ...

cheers
 
Instructors adding stuff is a disappointing concept imho. My question is, “why would the instructor adding stuff want to teach an his or her incomplete program?" - and by incomplete I mean one where the instructor feels compelled to add stuff? How does the instructor (or student) know that what the instructor is adding is correct, right, or appropriate?

More importantly - Is it ethical for the instructor to add stuff? Where did the instructor get the ‘added stuff’ from? Did the source of the ‘added stuff’ get credit (money) for their intellectual property (IP)? Or did the instructor just 'steal' from another program (or another agency) to add to his or her insufficient program?

Why wouldn't the instructor instead want to teach the program from where he / she got the 'added stuff' from?

The way I have seen programs that allow for 'added stuff' be promoted is as though it's a positive, when in reality it is a negative imho - for the reasons I have presented above and more. Programs that allow for 'added stuff' means that no one's cert for that program from that agency is of equal value. The cert the person got from an instructor who 'added stuff' has the same exact value as the one another person got from an instructor who added no stuff, or the wrong added stuff. Ethically, the student's cert with 'added stuff' should have the value of the program the 'added stuff' was stolen from - but the source program cert was not credited or awarded!

The 'added stuff' argument is imho just an excuse to allow the "it's the instructor, not the agency" feel good non-competitive all schools are the same fallacy to continue ...

cheers
Interesting points which I think I agree with. Everybody teach the same stuff...what the agency requires. IMHO, more stuff should be added (or brought back) to OW courses. Notably, some important Rescue skills. But if they're not in the "syllabus", don't start adding them. But, I've always been a "studier and a memorizer". I want to know the nuts and bolts.
I guess there's nothing wrong if an instructor adds correct information--in an area where he/she has expertise. If time permits and no extra tests or fees.
 
More importantly - Is it ethical for the instructor to add stuff? Where did the instructor get the ‘added stuff’ from? Did the source of the ‘added stuff’ get credit (money) for their intellectual property (IP)? Or did the instructor just 'steal' from another program (or another agency) to add to his or her insufficient program?
Sure, because if an instructor spent 10 years diving cave/wreck/deep they should not let any of that influence their OW/AOW class unless they teach it with whom ever they originally learned cave/wreck/deep from. That makes total sense.

Why wouldn't the instructor instead want to teach the program from where he / she got the 'added stuff' from?
They want to teach with shop X, which is agency Y? They like gear A, which agency B does not like? They like teaching class Z, not offered by agency W? ...
 
Sure, because if an instructor spent 10 years diving cave/wreck/deep they should not let any of that influence their OW/AOW class unless they teach it with whom ever they originally learned cave/wreck/deep from. That makes total sense.

If the 'added stuff' the instructor wishes to teach comes from sources outside of the agency they are certifying through, or goes against the principles of the shop, school, or agency they are teaching through, then it is absolutely unethical to teach it ... imho

They want to teach with shop X, which is agency Y? They like gear A, which agency B does not like? They like teaching class Z, not offered by agency W? ...

It sounds like this instructor is very confused, can't market themselves, or has no backbone or principles ...
 
If the 'added stuff' the instructor wishes to teach comes from sources outside of the agency they are certifying through, or goes against the principles of the shop, school, or agency they are teaching through, then it is absolutely unethical to teach it ...
If it came from their 1000s of hours in the cave/wreck/deep, it is unethical for them to use it in their class??

It sounds like this instructor is very confused, can't market themselves, or has no backbone or principles ...
Sure.
 
To the moderators: I see this conversation declining very quickly with this new direction that doesn't belong in basic scuba discussions. Maybe create a new thread in another forum?
 
I agree but in reality this whole post thread is meant to be a joke right? I didn't take it that OP was being serious with his question?
 
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