Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[DavidFL]

I have a Suunto Cobra 2 with direct hose AI; for me it provides one more resource in my personal situational awareness. I do also dive with an analog SPG, and I only do recreational diving. Some other divers think (and some occasionally tell me) I'm carrying too much gear; too much redundancy. Some of that is based on lifetime experience...a very long time ago I flew single seat, single engine, single radio jets off and on aircraft carriers, and the personal (redundant) gear on my personal self made the difference on several occasions between an incident and an anecdote. I can't say that Air Integration has yet provided any kind of "aha" in the underwater wild, but once in awhile it helps focus my attention on my breathing rate which I consider helpful.

 

[The Chairman]

It doesn't however change the evidence that AI and similar technologies aren't ready to dive unsupported by backup.

As I put in my caveat and which you quoted, I dive OW with only the transmitter. Any gear failure ends the dive. Someone posted that they did two dives with a fizzy hose, and I would have called those dives until the leak was fixed. I just can't stand leaks.

Perhaps you don't realize that I dove for years without a SPG just a J valve

As did I. So what? I found the addition of the SPG to my kit rather freeing. I find having that information now on my wrist to be even a better solution. It's a mixture of personal preference as well as the propensity to adopt new technologies.

 

[ronscuba]

I have a Suunto Cobra 2 with direct hose AI; for me it provides one more resource in my personal situational awareness. I do also dive with an analog SPG, and I only do recreational diving. Some other divers think (and some occasionally tell me) I'm carrying too much gear; too much redundancy. Some of that is based on lifetime experience...a very long time ago I flew single seat, single engine, single radio jets off and on aircraft carriers, and the personal (redundant) gear on my personal self made the difference on several occasions between an incident and an anecdote. I can't say that Air Integration has yet provided any kind of "aha" in the underwater wild, but once in awhile it helps focus my attention on my breathing rate which I consider helpful.

Hosed AI vs. Hoseless AI

I think the anti AI people view this and the need for a SPG backup for each, differently. I have a Suunto Cobra. Got it 15 yrs. ago, zero problems with the computer, but on my 3rd hose as 2 developed leaks. I believe the recommendation is to change hoses every 5 yrs ?

 

[Nemrod]

Any gear failure ends the dive. Someone posted that they did two dives with a fizzy hose, and I would have called those dives until the leak was fixed. I just can't stand leaks.

That is a rather black and white position for open water recreational diving. I see a lot of people enter the water with equipment not fully up to 100%. People can apply their experience to evaluate what is an inconvenience and what is a show stopper. The loss of a HP hose is not a problem for the open water diver in most situations. There will be an impressive stream of bubbles, the orifice in both the body of the regulator port and the orifice in all HP hose fittings will prevent a dangerous, immediate loss of air. A long time ago I broke a HP hose clean off leaving only the threads in the port. Yeah, it made a fuss and in that case I did abort the dive and took my sweet time about it, there was no need to hurry. Rather than blanket statements that exclude my using my grey matter, I see shades off grey and evaluate each for it's true potential to cause me or my buddy harm.

I am not against AI, I could see getting one someday when they have the same tolerance for abuse and reliability as a hosed SPG. Shades of grey but diving with an equipment that looses sync, you will call the dive on that? Equipment does not need to be 100% in all situations. It is desirable and as to redundancy, open water divers do not need personal redundancy, that is the purpose of a buddy. Solo, that is a whole different matter.

Post after post, those who use an AI carry a standard SPG, with a few exceptions, perhaps you are one of them. You might use a piece of equipment that does not have robust reliability, open water, no big deal, just call the dive and up you go. Damage and functional tolerance, a leaking HP hose, the SPG still provides a read out, a AI that looses sync intermittently. You would call the dive on the fizzy hose, I would call it before I got in with the AI. I did not purposely get on the boat with a known issue, but the AI divers do exactly that and the work around is to carry another piece of equipment that is more reliable, the standard, hosed SPG.

Does anyone else have problem with reading numbers? I read a number value and I have to process what that means. I look at an analog needle and need process nothing as I am simply accessing it's relative position. But I admit I am weird. .

N

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Just out of curiosity with people here who don't mind exploring the ground of trusting computers with vital support (not that AI failure is in anyway life threatening on recreational diving).

How many computer embracers here would have no problem driving a car with no mechanical link to the steering system?
In other words, the steering wheel would only send a signal to a computer that would transfer the information to a series of hydrolics and pumps that power the steering system. If the computer system burps or gives up suddenly you have no way to steer the car.
Would you trust such a system?
just a clue, when you see a loader or some pieces of farm equipment going down the road moving from one site to another they have no direct mechanical link to steering , FWIW.
Are you OK with that?

 

[AfterDark]

As I put in my caveat and which you quoted, I dive OW with only the transmitter. Any gear failure ends the dive. Someone posted that they did two dives with a fizzy hose, and I would have called those dives until the leak was fixed. I just can't stand leaks.

As did I. So what? I found the addition of the SPG to my kit rather freeing. I find having that information now on my wrist to be even a better solution. It's a mixture of personal preference as well as the propensity to adopt new technologies.

Many rec divers posted they use both routinely which helps make my point. You don't, you do however seem to be the exception not the rule. I have no trouble with new technologies that's how I make my living, assembling and testing high tech data storage for the world leader in data storage and security. My experience with failures is extensive. These cheap components made on the other side of the world to store data and communicate with servers are the same cheap components made in the same place by the same people. The systems we build are backup to the max because of those cheap components. I just don't warm up to using unreliable devices on my underwater adventures. I use back up gear for solo diving all the time, I don't expect to ever need to use any of it however.

 

[redacted]

Just out of curiosity with people here who don't mind exploring the ground of trusting computers with vital support (not that AI failure is in anyway life threatening on recreational diving).

How many computer embracers here would have no problem driving a car with no mechanical link to the steering system?
In other words, the steering wheel would only send a signal to a computer that would transfer the information to a series of hydrolics and pumps that power the steering system. If the computer system burps or gives up suddenly you have no way to steer the car.
Would you trust such a system?
just a clue, when you see a loader or some pieces of farm equipment going down the road moving from one site to another they have no direct mechanical link to steering , FWIW.
Are you OK with that?

You mean a system like is found on many modern passenger jets?

 

[Nemrod]

Just out of curiosity with people here who don't mind exploring the ground of trusting computers with vital support (not that AI failure is in anyway life threatening on recreational diving).

How many computer embracers here would have no problem driving a car with no mechanical link to the steering system?
In other words, the steering wheel would only send a signal to a computer that would transfer the information to a series of hydrolics and pumps that power the steering system. If the computer system burps or gives up suddenly you have no way to steer the car.
Would you trust such a system?
just a clue, when you see a loader or some pieces of farm equipment going down the road moving from one site to another they have no direct mechanical link to steering , FWIW.
Are you OK with that?

No I am not okay with hydraulic steering or servo steering. In aviation similar equipment is maintained by professional mechanics and inspection processes that are indeed robust and there are generally dual systems and work arounds for the pilot in the case of failure. When automobiles are maintained to the same stringent levels including annual inspections and tear downs and overhaul/replacement schedules and dual systems then I would be more okay with it. Farm equipment, however, they are generally traveling at slow speed and we are supposed to give them a wide birth, just most people do not know why, you and I do .

N

 

[dmoore19]

Probably, most of the cars controls are already electronically controlled.

We load up in an airplane, hurtle through the air a high speed and all of those controls on the big airliners are electronic.



AWAP beat me to it.

Just out of curiosity with people here who don't mind exploring the ground of trusting computers with vital support (not that AI failure is in anyway life threatening on recreational diving).

How many computer embracers here would have no problem driving a car with no mechanical link to the steering system?
In other words, the steering wheel would only send a signal to a computer that would transfer the information to a series of hydrolics and pumps that power the steering system. If the computer system burps or gives up suddenly you have no way to steer the car.
Would you trust such a system?
just a clue, when you see a loader or some pieces of farm equipment going down the road moving from one site to another they have no direct mechanical link to steering , FWIW.
Are you OK with that?

 

[AfterDark]

Hosed AI vs. Hoseless AI

I think the anti AI people view this and the need for a SPG backup for each, differently. I have a Suunto Cobra. Got it 15 yrs. ago, zero problems with the computer, but on my 3rd hose as 2 developed leaks. I believe the recommendation is to change hoses every 5 yrs ?

I don't change the hose every 5 years just when it looks tired. The O ring/valve at the gauge gets changed every 5 years and/or when I change the hose. I change the tires, brakes, oil and such on my car too. Why are you still using a hose? If a piece of gear that gives me 15 years of zero issues I wouldn't feel the need to back it up.