Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[dmoore19]

So backup your AI or not. It's a personal preference. I don't see the need to backup AI for the diving I do. The article clearly states steer by wire is here, it is here today, it is available now.

The possibility of failure is there, it is also there for an SPG. Given a set of circumstances, such as diving to depths of <100', avoiding situations that require decompression obligations I don't see why an spg is necessary when you can look at your wrist, or in my case the bottom of my mask, and see my pressure displayed. I have had no failures, no problems with sync. I do have a backup computer. The only problem I have had is the glass fell out of the mask. The computer and the AI continued to function. I surfaced (it was at the end of the dive anyway) drug out the extra mask I carry and put the SPG on. No problem I finished my dive vacation without missing a dive.

Probably and soon... Two very variable words... The article was posted as proof that non backup steer by wire is here today... It isn't


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[phoenix31tt]

So backup your AI or not. It's a personal preference. I don't see the need to backup AI for the diving I do.

The possibility of failure is there, it is also there for an SPG. Given a set of circumstances, such as diving to depths of <100', avoiding situations that require decompression obligations I don't see why an spg is necessary when you can look at your wrist, or in my case the bottom of my mask, and see my pressure displayed. I have had no failures, no problems with sync. I do have a backup computer. The only problem I have had is the glass fell out of the mask. The computer and the AI continued to function. I surfaced (it was at the end of the dive anyway) drug out the extra mask I carry and put the SPG on. No problem I finished my dive vacation without missing a dive.

Not sure if you read the entire thread but it's a couple of points that must be taken into consideration together and not apart...

1. It's people's options that wireless AI has reliability issues
2. This causes most to dive with an spg backup
3. The cost for wireless AI is high

Taking these 3 into consideration many people do not see the need to invest EXTRA in a technology that you probably need to backup Whiles getting marginally better convenience as opposed to traditional spg


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[The Chairman]

I read it. I just thought it funny. Nissan is developing their own version of it too. Much of the reticence towards hoseless AI is fueled by FUDD. Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt and Distortion. It's like watching a political fight.

 

[RJP]

I believe more of the issues here is with wireless transmitters inability to reliably sync...

Mine has synced 99.899699% of the time I've used it (996 out of 997 dives) that seems pretty reliable.

Is the technology 100% perfect 100% of the time? Of course not. But a handful of glitches here and there is not the same as "an inability to reliably sync." If what you mean is "an inability to attain an absolutely perfect 100% sync rate" then say that. If you want to say that SPGs are more reliable than wireless AI - a point no one disputes - go ahead and say that. If you want to say "even a small error in sync rate is unacceptable to me" no problem. But to say that wireless transmitters exhibit "an inability to sync reliably" just sort of makes you sound silly.

As with any "issue" the perceived prevalence is far higher than the actual prevalence due to the fact that a greater proportion of failed syncs will be posted/discussed/reported as compared to the proportion of successful syncs that will be posted/discussed/reported. The concept that such "negative report bias" greatly skews perception is a well-understood phenomenon.

Consider that if four people have a sync problem this weekend, two might come on SB on Monday and start "Wireless AI sucks" threads. However, none of the thousands and thousands of people who have NO problems syncing this weekend will come on here and start a thread saying "Did four dives this weekend and had zero problems."

The result of the negative report bias is that 100% of reports were of negative outcomes and 0% of reports were of positive outcomes. The net take away of the casual reader is "Geez, not a week goes by without several people complaining about sync issues." However, the number of reports does not accurately reflect the occurrence rate of the problem.

 

[phoenix31tt]

I did say it's people's opinion on the syncing though... Cuz alot of people with wireless AI mentioned they still dive with their backup...

My personal experience is that I don't see much wireless ai's and of the few I saw (maybe about 5 in total, I only have 100 dives and about 50 are with me and my wife alone). Of the 5 I saw 3 had problems with syncing... Enough so that I would wonder why spend the extra money. This is my experience not reading any threads on sync issues

It may very well be that I have had an unusual experience but even if it were 99% reliable (u are absolutely correct in stating nothing is 100% reliable) I still can't justify the extra cost


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[RJP]

2. This causes most to dive with an spg backup

This seems to be true of the handful of SB participants people who have posted in this thread... most of whom are tech-trained/inclined. Don't let that skew your perception.

In the real word, the proportion of divers using an SPG to back-up their wireless AI transmitters is de minimis.

 

[phoenix31tt]

This seems to be true of the handful of SB participants people who have posted in this thread... most of whom are tech-trained/inclined. Don't let that skew your perception.

In the real word, the proportion of divers using an SPG to back-up their wireless AI transmitters is de minimis.

I would have to concur with this assessment as all 5 I have seen none had an spg... But the thread did single out tech types as having the issue. Maybe because the op views tech types as having more information and making sounder choices Idk


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[KevinNM]

In the real word, the proportion of divers using an SPG to back-up their wireless AI transmitters is de minimis.

I never had an SPG. The transmitter just worked. I'd have to remember to ensure it was synced prior to jumping off the boat, but that wasn't hard. I'd occasionally see a loss of synch for a few seconds while diving, no big deal. And this was a very old transmitter and DC, the modern ones seem a bit more reliable.

I don't dive like that today, but I have no issues if other people want to.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Probably, most of the cars controls are already electronically controlled.

We load up in an airplane, hurtle through the air a high speed and all of those controls on the big airliners are electronic.



AWAP beat me to it.

Consumer passenger cars are aided by computer systems but not reliant 100% on computer technology when it comes to direct control of the vehicle. There is no mechanically unlinked steering or braking system available that I know of. Steering might be aided by electronically controlled power steering but if the system fails you can still steer the car. With anti lock brakes, anti skid technology, and computer aided power brakes, if any of those systems fails the brakes will still work. Some Cars have computer sensors for things like the gear selector, there might be a pick up pad that tells a computer to shift the trans into drive because you moved the lever over the "D" which is just a sensor, and if the sensor fails it won't go into gear, annoying but not life threatening. I had a new beetle once that did just that and they couldn't figure it out for months. Most computerization in cars is for emission controls. There are many sensors that measure air flow, exhaust heat, etc. and they send info to servos to adjust things to make cars run more efficiently. And of course let's not forget all the safety equipment like air bags, etc. cars never have problems with air bags, no never
Large aircraft are a little different. First they are so large that there would be no way to control the plane with a direct mechanical link, people aren't strong enough to man handle those types of forces. Second like Nemrod explained, those commercial systems have back ups and are Meticulously maintained. But why don't we do a poll and interview some of the passengers of the Asiana flight and see how they feel about trusting everything to a computer?

And this his new Google car, I don't know what to think yet. To sit in the car with no steering wheel and no brakes? No not me, not yet or maybe never. I can't wait to chase one of those things around with my truck and see what it does.

 

[boulderjohn]

This seems to be true of the handful of SB participants people who have posted in this thread... most of whom are tech-trained/inclined. Don't let that skew your perception.

In the real word, the proportion of divers using an SPG to back-up their wireless AI transmitters is de minimis.

I did not get that perception in the thread. Very few of the participants in this thread are "tech-trained/inclined." I am not going to go through the entire thread to sort this out, but I am having trouble remembering a lot of talk from those fitting this description for going AI with an SPG backup on recreational dives. Pete specifically said that he does not carry a backup to his AI on recreational dives. I certainly never said anything of the sort. Which "tech-trained/inclined" divers were advocating this for recreational dives?