Air integrated or no?

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AI may fail on you since it's a piece of technical equipment. The engineers among us know a SPG with it's only 3 parts in hardware are less prone to fail as a sensor with 5 parts and containing software. They also know having equipment never fail on you, only brings you closer to the one time there will be a failure. Proper maintenance will give you a longer period until that time.

The one question I'm missing in this debate: is air integration really worth the extra 600 $ investment to change a line into a curve?

I'm really on the verge of spending it 😄
 
The one question I'm missing in this debate: is air integration really worth the extra 600 $ investment to change a line into a curve?

I'm really on the verge of spending it 😄
That's the real question. For me: back mount -> nope. Sidemount -> yes please. CCR -> yes please.

For me it all has to do with the config. With CCR I do not need to know how much gas I have, knowing that I have enough gas (meaning no leak) and knowing my O2 is open is very important to me. So it's more of a monitoring system than using it for reading my gas supply. Besides that, looking at the cost of the whole rebreather config, 600 bucks isn't that much :shakehead:

Sidemount is a matter of convenience. Looking at the computer is something I rather do than having to grab an SPG somwehere at the back. For backmount I don't see any benefit.
 
The engineers among us know a SPG with it's only 3 parts in hardware are less prone to fail as a sensor with 5 parts and containing software.
That is only true if you assume the same MTBF* among those parts. FWIW, moving parts generally fail sooner.

(*MTBF = Mean Time Between Failure)
 
is air integration really worth the extra 600 $ investment to change a line into a curve?
There are often bargains to be had. In my case, the transmitter was effectively free when I bought used. In some other cases, one may have an AI capable unit for other reasons (e.g., display, compass, gas capacity, etc.), so even new, that $600 figure is rather high.
 
AI may fail on you since it's a piece of technical equipment. The engineers among us know a SPG with it's only 3 parts in hardware are less prone to fail as a sensor with 5 parts and containing software.

They also know having equipment never fail on you, only brings you closer to the one time there will be a failure.

Actually, real engineers know that neither of these statements are true.

Not all parts are equally likely to fail. You can't just count parts to determine failure probability or MTBF. Some SPG's are more reliable than others, even with the exact parts count. Material choices, manufacturing quality, and design choices matter.

Not all failure modes are driven by time. Many failures are random. Some become less likely the longer it's been since failure. For example electronics often rapidly become more reliable the longer they go without failure early in their life, and then aren't likely to fail until much later in life when failure slowly becomes more likely again.

Not all failures carry equal risk. If the software fails, there is no air lost. If a hose fails, there could be significant loss.

Your parts counts are wrong. Just the hose on the SPG has more than 3 parts: a threaded fitting on each end, an o-ring on each end, a hose connecting the fittings, a ferrule on each end to connect each fitting to the hose. Just there we have 7 parts. The case for the SPG has a body, a transparent face, and a rubber vent plug on the back. There are 3 more parts, and we haven't even reached the SPG mechanism itself. And don't tell me those parts don't count, there is a reason divers care whether the body is plastic, brass, or steel, whether the face is plastic or glass, etc.
 
That is only true if you assume the same MTBF* among those parts. FWIW, moving parts generally fail sooner.

(*MTBF = Mean Time Between Failure)
Yep. And moving parts, like SPGs can fail in subtle ways where it may not be immediately obvious that it's failed. Electronics tend to fail at power up and in such a way that there is no question that a failure occurred. If I must deal with a failure, I prefer the latter.
 
Is it worth the extra $$? that was my question really..... the reason for my starting the thread
and to me it doesn't bring enough to the party, given the type of diving I used to do or foresee ever doing..

sure it would be cool to have a real time indication of time remaining at the current depth and rate...but really that data to me is almost a distraction to get caught up in during a dive. What I'm breathing at this moment and at this depth right now isn't the total picture of the rest of the dive....

Instant consumption is sort of like the digital vs analog question (not just for diving pressures)...and that is also a direct variable here as well.... is it really important to know that I have "2,026.1 psig" right now...or is "approx 2,000 psig" good enough...

It doesn't seem like the current modern computers are doing anything with the breathing rates in terms of adjusting the deco algorithm

so in my opinion the greatest advantage of AI would be the log book data. To me that's interesting from a trivia standpoint and I can see getting caught up in it... but honestly from a keep it simple perspective I don't think it's really all that useful in the long term.

and the 2nd greatest advantage really isn't....with the hoseless variants so that the display can be on my wrist....1 glance for all dive data
but
I used to dive with one of those smallish SPG's form Scubapro...maybe 1-1/2 inch diameter. Not the huge console with depth gauge and compass that I had when I first started diving.... Clipped the little SPG to my chest in such a way that it was really not so much in my way, not so much a snag hazard, I could just look down and see it without even touching it....
 
...It doesn't seem like the current modern computers are doing anything with the breathing rates in terms of adjusting the deco algorithm...
You can use breathing rate, heart rate, and skin temperature to adjust the deco algorithm on some of the Scubapro computers. How these are applied is mostly a mystery but adds conservatism.

My Shearwater Teric has all kinds of information that is available and can be added to the home screen for easy viewing. For my simple diving, I replaced TTS in the deco row with tank pressure. In the info row I have SurfGF, GTR/SAC. and water temperature. I also have the floating north pointer displayed.
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Is it worth the extra $$? that was my question really..... the reason for my starting the thread
and to me it doesn't bring enough to the party, given the type of diving I used to do or foresee ever doing..

Then you answered your own question, right?

I did not think I wanted / needed it either, but I am really enjoying it, which is 99% of the reason for it.
 
Is it worth the extra $$? that was my question really..... the reason for my starting the thread
and to me it doesn't bring enough to the party, given the type of diving I used to do or foresee ever doing..

sure it would be cool to have a real time indication of time remaining at the current depth and rate...but really that data to me is almost a distraction to get caught up in during a dive. What I'm breathing at this moment and at this depth right now isn't the total picture of the rest of the dive....

Instant consumption is sort of like the digital vs analog question (not just for diving pressures)...and that is also a direct variable here as well.... is it really important to know that I have "2,026.1 psig" right now...or is "approx 2,000 psig" good enough...

It doesn't seem like the current modern computers are doing anything with the breathing rates in terms of adjusting the deco algorithm

so in my opinion the greatest advantage of AI would be the log book data. To me that's interesting from a trivia standpoint and I can see getting caught up in it... but honestly from a keep it simple perspective I don't think it's really all that useful in the long term.

and the 2nd greatest advantage really isn't....with the hoseless variants so that the display can be on my wrist....1 glance for all dive data
but
I used to dive with one of those smallish SPG's from Scubapro...maybe 1-1/2 inch diameter. Not the huge console with depth gauge and compass that I had when I first started diving.... Clipped the little SPG to my chest in such a way that it was really not so much in my way, not so much a snag hazard, I could just look down and see it without even touching it....
$ Value of AI is up to each individual and their budget/preferences. I like AI for a few reasons:
  • Auto capture of start and end pressure - makes RMV calcs in Dive Log automatic as I apply a tank template.
  • Real-time display of SAC during the dive so I can adjust technique if I see something appears to be off - great to make sure I’m staying relaxed.
  • More streamlined setup with 1 less hose/potential “dangly bit”
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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