why did GUE , DIR take so long to adopt sidemount.

[Bennno]

Interesting, I've done 250' dives with GUE divers I've just met. I don't see why doing a 7500' dive is that big a deal.

I hope you're kidding. Doing 'bigger' cave dives with unknowns is just irresponsible. There is no reason why you wouldn't do smaller dive fist to get to know someone first.

Sometimes I get the feeling people don't take cave and deco diving seriously enough.

Doing unknown circuits, starting deco training at 30 dives, doing muti-hour cave dives with people you don't know... stuff like this seem to be OK for some people on this forum... I think it's just stupid and unnecessary. Whatever happened to building experience over years and conservative planning? I guess these day everybody what's to be a tec-deep-rebreather-cave-dpv diver within 2 years and do 3 hour dives with people they just meet on some parking lot on while on vacation in Mexico.

 

[beester]

You would do an 7500' cave dive with somebody you have never even seen before the dive? GUE or not, that's not a very smart thing do.

YEP! To be honest we met in Mexico at Zerogravity... he was a Swedish C2 diver... and we did 2 more conservative C2 dives, but the 3rd dive was already a double bottom stage dive in Maya blue cenote (B tunnel to E tunnel to A tunnel and then further upstream).

I understand that you think this is unwise... but to be honest it's not. Of course we are all humans, and there is variance in skill level, awareness... from diver to diver or even from dive to dive, but within the "club" I'm very sure how someone will act, how he will communicate, what his awareness is, how he will resolve problems, how he will navigate. I've seen documentation divers on a project in croatia do very very T2 and rebreather dives, with multiple hours of deco who didn't know eachtother before. Same with a project a couple of years ago in Jutland, Northsea (diving the WW1 battleships and battlecruisers, which are all on depths between 50-75m).

 

[beester]

I hope you're kidding. Doing 'bigger' cave dives with unknowns is just irresponsible. There is no reason why you wouldn't do smaller dive fist to get to know someone first.

Sometimes I get the feeling people don't take cave and deco diving seriously enough.

Doing unknown circuits, starting deco training at 30 dives, doing muti-hour cave dives with people you don't know... stuff like this seem to be OK for some people on this forum... I think it's just stupid and unnecessary. Whatever happened to building experience over years and conservative planning? I guess these day everybody what's to be a tec-deep-rebreather-cave-dpv diver within 2 years and do 3 hour dives with people they just meet on some parking lot on while on vacation in Mexico.

I'm very well aware of the sociology term normalisation of deviance (ie it's not because a dive went well and you return safe that your skills, your experience, procedures, etc are sound... you could just have been lucky, and luck will run out in the end!). I question myself regarding this on a regular basis (see a recent post of me on scubaboard questioning myself whether or not to take GUE T2, if there was a need, if I have enough dives on my level, etc). I've been a technical diver (tx) for a while, and between my start of cave-training in 2012 and full cave I did more than 100 cavedives. I think it's the same with most GUE divers, no zero-to-heroes here.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

I hope you're kidding. Doing 'bigger' cave dives with unknowns is just irresponsible. There is no reason why you wouldn't do smaller dive fist to get to know someone first.

Sometimes I get the feeling people don't take cave and deco diving seriously enough.

Doing unknown circuits, starting deco training at 30 dives, doing muti-hour cave dives with people you don't know... stuff like this seem to be OK for some people on this forum... I think it's just stupid and unnecessary. Whatever happened to building experience over years and conservative planning? I guess these day everybody what's to be a tec-deep-rebreather-cave-dpv diver within 2 years and do 3 hour dives with people they just meet on some parking lot on while on vacation in Mexico.

Good luck with your GUE zero to hero! I'm sure everyone will be lining up to dive with you.

 

[Bennno]

Good luck with your GUE zero to hero! I'm sure everyone will be lining up to dive with you.

Huh? What are you guys talking about? I got cave trained 9 years ago, I was trimix trained and had more than 800 dives at this point. Maybe you should read what I wrote instead of pulling zero to hero stories and luck stories out of you a$$es. I didn't say anything about zero to hero training.
And I've been lucky? What do you know beester? Who are you to make judgments like this?

 

[PfcAJ]

You would do an 7500' cave dive with somebody you have never even seen before the dive? GUE or not, that's not a very smart thing do.

I'm with you on that one.

Knowing someones temperament and personality is a big thing. Just because some jagoff passed a GUE class has no bearing on if they're squared away and compatible as a dive buddy on a full deal thing.

 

[decompression]

Agreed, my trust is inversely proportionate to the level of risk.

 

[beester]

Huh? What are you guys talking about? I got cave trained 9 years ago, I was trimix trained and had more than 800 dives at this point. Maybe you should read what I wrote instead of pulling zero to hero stories and luck stories out of you a$$es. I didn't say anything about zero to hero training.
And I've been lucky? What do you know beester? Who are you to make judgments like this?

I'm sorry Benno... I didn't say you were zero to hero??!! That was Scubainchicago?? Read the posts above. I'll never assume anything about anybody... who am I to make any assumptions?

Next I didn't say you were lucky??? Where did you get that from. I was pointing out that I understand normalisation of deviance which basically describes that it's not because a dive went well that this means all procedures, awareness, own experience, etc is good... I could have just been lucky! I am talking about my own here... not you.

Sorry if you think I was making any comments on you.

 

[beester]

I'm with you on that one.

Knowing someones temperament and personality is a big thing. Just because some jagoff passed a GUE class has no bearing on if they're squared away and compatible as a dive buddy on a full deal thing.

Then I must have been very lucky so far... or my 'full deal dives' are much less than yours... which I can appreciate. So you only dive with GUE divers you know... well you've just thrown away the best thing that is GUE.

 

[PfcAJ]

Then I must have been very lucky so far... or my 'full deal dives' are much less than yours... which I can appreciate. So you only dive with GUE divers you know... well you've just thrown away the best thing that is GUE.

No..... But I'm not signing up to do a seven thousand ft penetration with some dude I just met. I'll go on a cave or tech dive with a GUE guy I barely know, sure (done it plenty), but not something overly complicated or involved like we're now talking about in this thread.

If you're under the impression that the GUE system is so strong that literally everyone is the same post-training, your confidence is misplaced. Its an excellent starting point and makes the process easier, but getting to know people through actually spending time and diving with them is key.