No valve drills (indy doubles)

[rx7diver]

Here's the scenario: Deep open water dive, to the outside of a shipwreck. Great Lakes or East Coast, maybe Carolina.

Boat rules: Advanced card, deep, redundant air. Diver must maintain enough air in each cylinder to go from bottom to surface comfortably, at all times. No side mount on this boat.

You choose back mounted doubles. You suck at valve drills. Too inflexible. Too big. Too narc'd. Whatever reason you want. You can do them, but it seems stupid in an emergency situation. So you choose to remove your isolator and plug your modular valves.

Discuss. ...

Independent doubles (ID's) make a lot of sense (to me) for solo, deeper diving. If I lost the flexibility to reach over my shoulders to operate my tank valves, I would see if inverted ID's would work for me.

One consideration: You'll probably need to use very large capacity cylinders for these ID's if you want to spend significant time at these deeper depths, since you effectively will be diving sixths (so as to be able to return to the surface on only two-thirds of a single cylinder if necessary).

Didn't/doesn't Bernie Chowdury (sp?) dive independent doubles?

rx7diver

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Didn't/doesn't Bernie Chowdury (sp?) dive independent doubles?

Bill "Hogarth" Main does.

 

[rx7diver]

Bill "Hogarth" Main does.

I was thinking that Bill Main wore/wears manifolded doubles but without the isolator valve. No?

 

[rjack321]

Bill "Hogarth" Main does.

Bill isn't exactly known for being "modern"

Some Thoughts on Independent Doubles

All, I just sent this via PM to another member here. I though I would share it with more of you. rx7diver "[Addressee], "When I returned to central MO (after having lived in SE Michigan and learning to extended range dive on Great Lakes shipwrecks), I had no one down here to do advanced...

scubaboard.com

Independent Doubles!

I searched, and even googled it. Seems no one really is diving independent doubles. I was hoping to find a few pictures, or maybe some information on other peoples set-ups. But no luck, so I thought I would post, maybe someone out there has some experience with independent doubles, or someone is...

scubaboard.com

Thoughts on setting up backmounted independent doubles

So, I am curious how people who dive backmounted independent doubles set up their gear. Rather than dive sidemount in areas where twin sets are not available, I would like to set up a set up independent doubles. The concept is to be able to switch out tanks on a backplate easily. This...

scubaboard.com

Independent Doubles

I've noticed a lot of negative talk about independent doubles. I'm curious as to why all the negative talk about independents.

scubaboard.com

Management of *backmount* independent doubles?

After @tbone1004 's recent thread ( https://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/a-need-to-rehash-our-discussion-on-primary-donate.575160 ) I was inspired to ask about a scenario that I'm unclear about and would appreciate some different perspectives. When traveling, it can be difficult or even...

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A need to rehash our discussion on primary donate

As most of you know, and likely agree, I am a firm proponent for primary donate. It allows us to prepare for the worst with a panicked OOA situation, gives great streamlining and hose routing, easy access to the secondary, etc. It is the obvious way to dive with the ability to always hand off...

scubaboard.com

Diving with Independent Doubles

Diving With Independent Doubles Independent cylinders were once the standard uniform for any cave diver. They were commonplace in Florida caves and New Jersey wrecks and anywhere the demands of diving required a redundant gas supply. As the years went by innovation and adaptation changed the...

scubaboard.com

My "new" independent doubles setup

I posted this in regulators but I also wanted to post it here where some may use IDs Single 2nd stage independent doubles One of the "drawbacks" of independent doubles (IDs) is the regulator changes. Removing a regulator from one's mouth at 100+ feet is something that some people might advise...

scubaboard.com

Just in case anyone wants to dive backmount independent doubles

re: The video... Why would manifolded doubles be not available or difficult to get? Maybe I know how to shop around, but they're not hard to get, nor that expensive. DGX has a very affordable option for the valves if anyone's interested. DGX Gears Premium Dual-Outlet Long Neck Manifold with...

scubaboard.com

independent double tanks or isolator valve doubles.

I'm thinking of doubling up my steel 100's. but I'm torn beteen being able to use them as singles also.what are the views on using a joined isolator valve set up as to using independent tanks with seperate valves.does anyone use doubles as two independent tanks?what are the pros and cons of both?

scubaboard.com

There really isn't anything to discuss that isn't present in the above threads. Backmounted independent doubles haven't changed other than falling further out of common use.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Assume a disability then.

Chest too thick, bicep too thick, damaged joints.

A thick chest or bicep will not prevent reaching the valves. There is plenty of clearance if you position your elbow out at the correct angle. If necessary, loosen the waist strap a bit and drop your head down so that the tanks slide forward making the valves easier to reach.

As for disabilities, everyone is different. One of my regular buddies had badly damaged shoulder joints with limited range of motion from a motorcycle crash. With practice and flexibility exercises he was eventually able to complete valve drills and manage failures well enough to meet tech diving course standards.

For those with more severe disabilities, regular scuba diving is not safe. Organizations like the Handicapped Scuba Association are doing great work in that domain and can provide personalized assistance with specially trained buddies.

Home

www.hsascuba.com

 

[KenE]

For those with more severe disabilities, regular scuba diving is not safe.

You are basically saying that if I can't do valve drills due to injury that regular scuba diving is not safe?

I highly disagree. I have been diving with injuries that prevent valve drills for many years and why I won't even try GUE, too exclusive. This if very short sighted.

If you’re too fat or too immobile to do drills (other than a disability), you’re the equipment problem and you should fix yourself not the gear. But divers don’t like to look at themselves in that light.

This fix may take several years to resolve, until then a solution is needed. Again, very short sighted.

Diving is a hobby and done for enjoyment, telling someone that they need to change their physical shape, or that diving isn't safe for them is just wrong. Equipment changes are a means to overcome obstacles, if you can't understand this than you have drank too much kool-aid. Most of my dive buddies, both GUE and otherwise understand the limitations of size and disabilities. So, I don't blame this notion on GUE or any other agency. I blame it on the individuals who can't see past their own situation.

I have a neck injury from military that prevent my right arm from reaching back. I broke and dislocated my left arm at the shoulder which prevent range of motion, and I am fat. None of these make my diving unsafe. I have made a couple gear changes to make it more comfortable to don & doff my kit. Both cylinders are on my back and turned on before donning. I dive beyond 100' every year without issue. I would not consider doubles due to weight, either independent or manifolded. But, indy doubles would be my only option if weight was not an issue on my shoulders.

 

[JMBL]

Then the diver should choose another hobby, or a less taxing/advanced dive.

Rather curt, don't you think ?

 

[happy-diver]

Do yourselves a favour, even if you can reach your valves



Check this dude out, he's a dude

with his sword

and his woody

with one leg, he got injured last week, he's a dude

 

[Marie13]

You are basically saying that if I can't do valve drills due to injury that regular scuba diving is not safe?

I highly disagree. I have been diving with injuries that prevent valve drills for many years and why I won't even try GUE, too exclusive. This if very short sighted.


This fix may take several years to resolve, until then a solution is needed. Again, very short sighted.

Diving is a hobby and done for enjoyment, telling someone that they need to change their physical shape, or that diving isn't safe for them is just wrong. Equipment changes are a means to overcome obstacles, if you can't understand this than you have drank too much kool-aid. Most of my dive buddies, both GUE and otherwise understand the limitations of size and disabilities. So, I don't blame this notion on GUE or any other agency. I blame it on the individuals who can't see past their own situation.

I have a neck injury from military that prevent my right arm from reaching back. I broke and dislocated my left arm at the shoulder which prevent range of motion, and I am fat. None of these make my diving unsafe. I have made a couple gear changes to make it more comfortable to don & doff my kit. Both cylinders are on my back and turned on before donning. I dive beyond 100' every year without issue. I would not consider doubles due to weight, either independent or manifolded. But, indy doubles would be my only option if weight was not an issue on my shoulders.

Have you even considered sidemount?

 

[lostsheep]

I am and have always been very flexible. My fundies instructor kept moving my tanks down trying to get them to where it would be hard for me to reach. Eventually he realized the futility of this exercise. He then chastised me for not pointing my elbow the right way when doing valve drills; why does it matter if you can reach the ******* knobs? I won’t sugar coat it, that over dedication to identical pointy elbows was one of the straws that broke this camels back.

For once I agree with the GUE fans above, just use a manifolded set; removing a manifold because you “can do valve drills but you think it’s stupid in an emergency” is the real stupidity.