Diving with Independent Doubles

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wedivebc

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Diving With Independent Doubles

Independent cylinders were once the standard uniform for any cave diver. They were commonplace in Florida caves and New Jersey wrecks and anywhere the demands of diving required a redundant gas supply. As the years went by innovation and adaptation changed the way divers set up their double tanks. The manifold with isolator became standard equipment on most sets of doubles and could be seen in droves from the caves of the Yucatan to the quarries of Ohio. Many of the divers learning to use doubles have never seen independent cylinders doubled up, as many new tech divers were taught that they were somehow substandard or even dangerous. I had one former solo student tell me as he stood on the Ogden Point breakwater about to plunge, a group of "tech" divers approached him and told him he was going to die diving such a contraption.
So lets look at this system realistically. An independent system allows you to carry two separate gas supplies with independent regulators. No single failure can render you without breathing gas. Unlike the manifold that could possibly suffer a catastrophic loss of gas should one of a number of o-rings fail or mechanical damage to the crossbar isolator prevent any of the o-rings from sealing. The way people use the isolator as a carrying handle I am surprised this hasn't happened more frequently but as such it is an extremely rare failure. Independents don't require any immediate action on the part of the diver should a catastrophic failure occur. Lets say a diver is penetrating a tight space in a cave or a wreck. They encounter a sharp object that causes a tear in an LP hose. A huge cloud of bubbles ensues and the percolation from the ceiling turns the water to a silty mess. To top it off the diver is not able to reach the manifold due to the restricted space they are in. I have personally been in this type of situation. Their only choice is to back out of the hole being careful to locate the guideline and find an area where they have enough freedom of movement to save their remaining gas by conducting a valve drill. The amount of remaining gas will depend on how quickly they were able to perform these steps but there is a good chance they may not be able to save sufficient gas for a safe exit. Also if the failure occurs on the left side of a conventional Hogarthian rig the diver will have no idea how much gas is remaining to get them safely out because they will have had to isolate their only SPG. The independent diver merely locates the guideline and gets themselves to a safer area where they can shut off the offending tank, or if the situation makes it difficult ignore it until the tank runs out. Either way he knows he has enough gas to exit the overhead environment he is in. This is due to simple gas management.
The independent doubles diver uses the rule of thirds, just like the manifold diver but slightly different. Each independent tank has to have its own SPG and the diver should start breathing off the right post and switch to the left post at 2/3rds tank pressure. The diver then makes a switch of regulators and continues the penetration on left regulator. When left tank reaches 2/3rds pressure the diver turns the dive and begins the exit. At this point he continues to breathe off the left post and has exactly the same amount of gas as if he were diving a manifold rig. When the diver reaches 1/3 tank pressure on the left tank he switches back to right tank and continues to the exit. Only two regulator switches are made and the diver has ensured sufficient gas to make a safe exit from any point in the dive using only half of the available supply.
Lets use a hypothetical situation. A diver using independents has a catastrophic gas failure just at the moment he was turning the dive in a cave. The diver at this point has consumed one third of each tank and so whichever tank is not affected has exactly the same amount he used prior to turning the dive. Prudent cave divers will pace themselves when entering the cave so that they will be able to make a speedier exit in case of trouble than what it took to reach the turn point. A diver using a manifold with the same failure will have to perform an isolator shutdown in order to preserve gas. This may cause stress and require focus in an emergency. They may not be concentrating on the most important task at hand, which is maintaining contact with the guideline in the rapidly deteriorating visibility. They may or may not have closed the isolator in time to preserve 2/3rds of the existing tank and as mentioned above, if the left side is affected they won't know for sure until they get out alive.
Prejudice against independents is so strong that one incident puts a smile on my face. A former student of mine was using independents during his tech instructor training. His instructor trainer was making his strong objection known to the potential instructor but the student was making a strong case for his position. So strong in fact that the instructor trainer had to call his buddy to remind him why they hated independents so much. The IT finished with the comment "I would never enter a cave with you in that rig". What is really amusing is that independents in the form of sidemount are gaining in popularity in caves all over the world.
One more point about independents for the traveling diver. You don't need to carry your doubles to remote destinations. Put some wing nuts on your tank bands and carry them with you and rent any tank that is available. You can even just rent two regulators at your destination and remove those extra second stages. Although you may encounter the wrath of a knowledgeable dive shop worker who will tell you how those things are going to kill you. :wink:
 
Interesting comments Dave.

I've thought about the two systems myself and debated the risk of each set of potential failure points without coming to any conclusions. Some questions I've had are:

Is the risk involved in reg switches and gas planning more or less than the risk of not being able to isolate a failure properly.

Is the difficulty in gas planning and monitoring that different between the two.

Why does the doubles diver with a left post failure intentionally choose to be unable to measure gas (the most common response is "what does it matter the dive is turned" or "a careful diver would have an aprox. idea of the remaining gas anyways").

I don't claim to have any answers but I'm interested in the discussion. :popcorn:

The fact that independant twins are poo pooed but sidemount twins are not challenged hasn't been lost on me either.

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One argument I've heard against twins is that you don't have access to all your gas (as with doubles) if you have a post up failure. As the diagram shows this is really only a concern if you are down to reserve gas (where you have 1/6th less gas than the doubles diver). I wonder if this isn't planning for three failures (loss of a post, loss of buddy, need of reserve gas).

Does anyone know if isolator valve failures are common, somewhat common, rare (as I see this as the weak link in the doubles set up?
Dale.
 
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Why does the doubles diver with a left post failure intentionally choose to be unable to measure gas (the most common response is "what does it matter the dive is turned" or "a careful diver would have an aprox. idea of the remaining gas anyways").
They choose to have only one SPG which is attached to the left post. If the left post has to be isolated so does the SPG.
In the long run it doesn't matter, you either have enough or you don't but I like the idea of knowing I have enough. If you have to isolate due to a catastrophic failure you can't really know how much gas is remaining.

One argument I've heard against twins is that you don't have access to all your gas (as with doubles) if you have a post up failure. As the diagram shows this is really only a concern if you are down to reserve gas (where you have 1/6th less gas than the doubles diver). I wonder if this isn't planning for three failures (loss of a post, loss of buddy, need of reserve gas).

Does anyone know if isolator valve failures are common, somewhat common, rare (as I see this as the weak link in the doubles set up?
Any contingency plan can account for one failure. If you start planning for multiple faiures you will need to carry many more tanks and regualtors, lights etc, etc...
I am not aware of any manifold failures underwater. I think they are extremely rare. I just find independants more convenient and don't buy the argument that they are less safe than manifolded doubles.
 
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How about using one of these:
(search on google for "LOLA Universal DIN Valve golem gear")

For some reason i can't post URLs before i have made 5 posts....
 
Or you could listen to Bonzanic and get rid of the isolator altogether but leave the cylinders manifolded together as the least of all evils.
?deal Manifolds Not So Ideal?
Manifold Options for Cave Diving

Personally, I would be much more likely to go sidemount and have the valve and regs where I can see them (which would be a benefit for my diving) than use independent backmounted cylinders.
 
If you are diving with sidemounts and a stage then the only failures that will cause you not to have access to all your gas are a burst disc failure or a neck O ring failure. Both of these are rather rare. In these instances you would be better off than a manifolded doubles diver as he will have lost one tank AND whatever gas was lost from the good tank before fixing the problem.

All other failures (burst hose,freeflowing reg etc ) could be dealt with by switching out the faulty reg with the one not being used.

Between always making sure to have enough gas to exit/reach first deco switch in each tank, using some of a Buddies gas, or as a last resort switching regs underwater, sidemount gives me a lot of confidence.
 
Interesting system...what problem does it solve....?

Breaking the isolator valve on both sides of regular manifolded doubles. Very,very rare failure to be sure but you would be SOL if you had it happen diving solo. (Unless you had a Spare Air of course)
 
I used to dive independent doubles frequently when traveling (when manifolded doubles were not available) and when diving in very cold water with havy undergarments and dry gloves (making shutting down the valve slightly more difficult in circumstances where a freeze flow was more likely.

I can also see some benefit to having independent doubles (or a closed isolator) in a long, tight restriction where the restiction would prevent you from reaching your valves in the event of a failure.

Gas management is not a big deal - you use 1/3rd of the first tank, then switch to the second and use 1/3rd of it, turn the dive continue using the second third of the tank then switch back to the first tank to use the second third from it. It is only two gas switches and at any point in the dive you have enough gas remaining in either tank to exit.

And as indicated above, while an isolator valve/manifold cross bar failure is rare (as in I have never heard of one in the real world) it could screw up your whole day. In contrast, if you have a burst disc or o-ring failure with a manifold, you have to do something and you have to isolate quickly at max penetration to ensure enough reserve gas to exit. With independent doubles you don't have to shut anything off - its nice to do it, but you don't HAVE to do it.

Either way both systems have pros and cons, both systems work fine in a single failure situation and both can kill you in a multiple failure situation, so ti realy depends on the situation, what failures are more likely and what events may impact your ability to react to those failures.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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