Tips for backmounting an AL19 pony?

[justinthedeeps]

As another diver who has dived a bunch of setups, Including singles, twinsets, sidemount, rebreathers, DPVs, full sized camera rigs etc,

You wouldn't catch me dead hardwaring a pony to a backmount single, when it is sooo much simpler, easier, more modular, separately portable etc etc to just side-clip on the pony per "stage" practices.

If you're experiencing chest clutter etc, then there a lot of ways of mitigating that by adjusting and snugging up the rigging (commonly way too much slack and play/dangling), using shockers or bungees on the top end, low-clipping the top to a second chest D ring, all of that is much easier than clamping ponys onto backmounts (especially when traveling or hiring/using cylinders you don't own etc)

 

[afieldofblue]

Only dived there briefly so far, thanks for giving some context re: some of the odd ways SCUBA there seems to be held behind vs. modern global standards (hard to find DIN/convertible valves too?)

Yes, Japanese diving is definitely in some sort of cultural bubble, where isolation reinforced both by language issues and a relative indifference to what is going on elsewhere, unfortunately.
DIN / convertible valves are pretty much only found in operations run by European foreigners or tech friendly shops, Japanese or foreign, but these rarely do tank rentals only. After years with no issues on convertible valves including in relatively remote east Bali, I've had to dig out the yoke adapter again...

And when it comes to cylinders and valves there is an added layer of complexity with Japan's own High Pressure Gas Safety Act regulations, which requires tanks to be KHK certified to be legally useable in the country (DOT tanks cannot legally be hydro'ed or filled here).
The 19cu pony I found is a Luxfer which was re-certified in the Japanese system (doing this is something of a bureacratic nightmare, I looked into it and it implies send the tanks to Tokyo, with translated DOT documentation etc...), so I will be able to get it filled here.

Other divers using smaller cylinders (stages, rebreather cylinders, ponies etc) just skip the Japanese certification and fill their tanks independently (or transfill), but this is actually illegal and would cause issues in an accident investigation...

 

[afieldofblue]

As another diver who has dived a bunch of setups, Including singles, twinsets, sidemount, rebreathers, DPVs, full sized camera rigs etc,

You wouldn't catch me dead hardwaring a pony to a backmount single, when it is sooo much simpler, easier, more modular, separately portable etc etc to just side-clip on the pony per "stage" practices.

If you're experiencing chest clutter etc, then there a ways of mitigating that by adjusting and snugging up the rigging (commonly way too much slack and play/dangling), using shockers or bungles on the top end, low-clipping the top to a second chest D ring, all of that is much easier than clamping ponys onto backmounts (especially when traveling or hiring/using cylinders you don't own etc)

Thanks but as explained above, I shoot video, especially super macro, where I am almost lying on the ground due to camera/screen consideration, and want nothing on my chest or under my arm.
To give an example, I rig my LPI hose otherwise it's in the sand, and in this kind of context I know for sure will be pushing the slung tank + reg out of the way behind me. Meaning I would probably end up rigging it behind me anyway, which defeats the purpose.
I'll only do solo shore dives with this setup (no boat/travel), and for entries/exits much prefer having nothing dangling other than the camera rig if I need to clip it because it's a little hairy.

Backmounted is much easier for this application, and will make my life easier for walk-in entries/exits with the camera. Most clamping solutions offered here are pretty straightforward, and simply imply clipping one single camband/strap to the primary tank, which is fine with me.

There's really no reason for me to add the complication of separate portable element to the kit. It's quite the opposite of what I'm after for this application.

 

[justinthedeeps]

Thanks but as explained above, I shoot video, especially super macro, where I am almost lying on the ground due to camera/screen consideration, and want nothing on my chest or under my arm.
To give an example, I rig my LPI hose otherwise it's in the sand, and in this kind of context I know for sure will be pushing the slung tank + reg out of the way behind me. Meaning I would probably end up rigging it behind me anyway, which defeats the purpose.
I'll only do solo shore dives with this setup (no boat/travel), and for entries/exits much prefer having nothing dangling other than the camera rig if I need to clip it because it's a little hairy.

Backmounted is much easier for this application, and will make my life easier for walk-in entries/exits with the camera. Most clamping solutions offered here are pretty straightforward, and simply imply clipping one single camband/strap to the primary tank, which is fine with me.

There's really no reason for me to add the complication of separate portable element to the kit. It's quite the opposite of what I'm after for this application.

You're already adding the extra cylinder, regulator, hose etc, in either approach. So side clipping is not more complicated than trying to hard clamp cylinders together. And when you go to change cylinders, it's a bigger pain to faff around with the "back pony" config than to simply set aside the small pony stage. And keep things modular.

In regard to filming, there are hundreds of professional filmers who have no trouble getting world class footage (including supermacro subjects at sand level) while employing bailout cylinders of various sizes if/as needed.

I have no trouble doing macro with stages, provided that cylinders are appropriately rigged and clipped (and often bungeed) so that it doesn't actually get in the way. There are several ways of clipping bailout stages, you could even clip the top end onto a hip or tail D ring if you wanted to, provided that the cylinder is open, the gas is breathable (MOD) and you give yourself easy access to the second stage on a necklace reg.

 

[justinthedeeps]

Re: boat and shore logistics I see your reasoning about a single-unit / multi-cylinder approach feeling simpler for entries and exits. A lot of Seattle/Vancouver divers dive this way

But having more weight affixed higher up on the rig isn't necessarily great either, in testy conditions

For Hawaii rough lava shore dives, I sometimes just hurl a stage in first, by itself! Quick clip it onto a hip ring after initial entry, walk/swim out a bit further, reclip/reposition as necessary. Modularity gives options

Depending on the site conditions you could also use a tagline to assist pulling stage cylinders in and out of the water (though I have not needed to yet, including with camera gear and DPV..)

 

[afieldofblue]

You're already adding the extra cylinder, regulator, hose etc, in either approach. So side clipping is not more complicated than trying to hard clamp cylinders together. And when you go to change cylinders, it's a bigger pain to faff around with the "back pony" config than to simply set aside the small pony stage. And keep things modular.

In regard to filming, there are hundreds of professional filmers who have no trouble getting world class footage (including supermacro subjects at sand level) while employing bailout cylinders of various sizes if/as needed.

I have no trouble doing macro with stages, provided that cylinders are appropriately rigged and clipped (and often bungeed) so that it doesn't actually get in the way. There are several ways of clipping bailout stages, you could even clip the top end onto a hip or tail D ring if you wanted to, provided that the cylinder is open, the gas is breathable (MOD) and you give yourself easy access to the second stage on a necklace reg.

Understood, but it's not what I would like to do at the moment.
As for professional videographers, they don't have the same constraints as I have, in that they have an HDMI screen and can position themselves over the rig. I don't have an HDMI output on my rig, and use an screen magnifier on the housing, meaning I need to be at housing level.
It's all kitchen stuff. I work on a quadripod, and make microfocus adjustements to the camera, for which I need to be horizontal camera level, not above. This means very low, and the last thing i want in these situations is a cylinder clipped on me rather than on the tank, behind me.

But frankly, do i really need to go in this here again, in a thread where i specifically asked for advice on backmounting options?

I totally understand why people might prefer slinging, or sidemount, or even twinsets or rebs, and I also know why I don't find it practical to it for what I do at the moment, let's just leave it at that.

And in a few month or years I see the light and move on to a sling, I'll make sure to credit you and Gamon for have tried to show me the errors of my ways.

I've noticed this something of a constant in threads on the subject, and it's the second time in this one.
I'm sure it's coming from good intentions, and I appreciate the time taken to share of knowledge and opinions, but I also don't think what I'm planning on doing is wrong, or at least to the point that I should need to justify the choice of backmounting a 19cf pony tank in this manner.

Thank you.

 

[happy-diver]

Duck and cover duck and cover, the slingers are coming the slingers are coming

Plenty to say but not much diving substance

Beware the slingers!

 

[afieldofblue]

There's no right or wrong, however your stubborn and closeminded attitude doesn't do you any favors. You've chosen to disregard a proven and superior technique because you have decided, without even trying it, that it won't work for you.

A constant in many threads besides the highly opinionated answers is that often a person will start a thread and ask the wrong question expecting to get right answers that support their often incorrect way of thinking and get defensive when few or none agree with their suggested technique.

Fair enough. I'm not sure if you consider my thread a "wrong question" reflecting an "incorrect way of thinking" as well, but in any case, I think you've made your point.

Thank you again for sharing your feedback, views, and experience — especially about your transition from a backmounted to a slung pony — which I'll keep in mind.

This might be me being stubborn and closed-minded again, but I'll personally stick to discussions focused on the thread topic, which is advice on actual backmounting systems people use.
There have been quite a lot of useful and practical contributions, covering 4 distinct backmounting systems so far.
Meaning I'll deliberately avoid taking part in slinging vs. backmount vs. sidemount vs. twinsets debates altogether from now on, as I think pretty much all has been said.

Our differences don't have to divide us.


Cheers.

 

[halocline]

I’ve read through this whole thread now and wasn’t going to comment until I saw the photo of your BC. If you want to get rid of clutter around your torso, and have the cleanest possible chest/front area, I would suggest getting a compact BP/W set up with a simple, one piece webbing harness.

Then for your regulator, you might actually consider using a double hose. I know that will sound nutty, but if there’s a way to try diving with one, you’ll find that having the entire regulator and exhaust bubbles behind your head is a revelation for close up photography.

Those two things would dramatically clear out stuff in your chest/torso/facial area. There would be nothing in those areas other than webbing, a couple of D-rings, and the mouthpiece from the DH.

Then you want some redundancy. I’m not sure why (you haven’t specified) but that’s ok. Given the restraints your are putting on slinging a bailout bottle, I would consider using something like a AL30 or 40, not quite filled, like maybe around 2000 PSI. That would make the tank a little butt-light but still have way, way more than enough gas to get you to the surface. Then you use a bungee neck leash to clip the tank to your butt D ring, or if the single tank prevents that, find another clipping point behind you, and let it ride behind you sort of like a tail would if humans had tails. This is a common practice for carrying less than full stages and deco bottles. It doesn’t roll you to the side, it is easy to get to, and it’s completely out of the way for what you want to do.

You keep asking for a way to hard mount a pony on your back, and several experienced divers, myself included, just don’t think that’s a good practice period. So my advice, like it or not, is to re-think what it is you are actually trying to accomplish and find a solution that other types of divers have already proven works.

 

[afieldofblue]

I also shoot lots of video, from shore, solo, and back mount an AL19 on a Shark pony bracket. Solid, easy to mount and out of the way.

As a follow-up question, how height adjustable is the Shark bracket? I've been looking at the pics and it's a little difficult to understand what flexibility the metal rod connected to the tank valve offers in terms of primary tank height/design.
Thanks