• Welcome to ScubaBoard

  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

why did GUE , DIR take so long to adopt sidemount.

Discussion in 'Sidemount Diving' started by gearbow, Dec 12, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ScubaInChicago

    ScubaInChicago Professional Photographer

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Chicago, IL
    1,561
    303
    83
    8,000' is my threshold before vetting someone.
     
  2. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    73,126
    57,091
    113
    That there's just a sad comment.

    I spent 10 days on a liveaboard in Egypt a couple years ago. The guy who organized the trip is a UTD instructor. His wife is also a UTD instructor. Probably 10 of the 16 divers on board were either UTD or GUE trained ... including a GUE instructor. The boat is owned by a people with GUE/UTD associations. I was diving my Dive Rite Nomad. Couple other folks on board were in different sidemount rigs ... Stealths, as I recall. Two guys were diving Megs.

    Oddly, we all got along famously. The only tension on board was toward the end of the trip, when we started running low on beer.

    When I'm on a dive boat, the last thing I want to worry about is the letters on somebody's c-card. I'm less concerned about somebody's equipment choices than I am that their skills and attitude are appropriate for the dive plan. If they're my dive buddy, I'm going to be concerned with making sure we've got contingencies covered. And if I'm uncomfortable with any part of their approach to the dive, I'll politely suggest that we're not the best choice of buddies and put some effort into finding someone else to dive with.

    Christ ... we're engaging in a recreational activity here ... let's act like it, relax, and enjoy ourselves. I got enough tension in my life ... I go diving to get away from it.

    Oh, and FWIW - I'm going back to Egypt to dive again with the same group in August ... so I guess they're not too stressed about my choice to dive sidemount ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
    Razorista likes this.
  3. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    73,126
    57,091
    113
    ... 3-hour cave dives in Mexico often won't even put you in deco ... it's not a big deal, in some cases. The most significant consideration is making sure everyone's on the same page with placement of markers, so you can find your way out ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
  4. Bennno

    Bennno Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Germany
    687
    252
    63
    A three hours cave dive is not a big deal, huh? And you don't even know your buddy? Sorry, this is such an ignorant statement and an attitude like this will kill people and it has killed people in the past. Do you even realize that, Bob? Who cares whether you’re in deco or not? On most 3 hour cave dives there are tons of navigational divisions to be made.

    It drives me nuts that there are people on this board that are constantly downplaying the risks of cave and deco diving. And than Pete, tell me that I'm fear mongering.

    Only because you did that a couple of times and survived does not means it's not a stupid thing to do, Bob.
    This is exactly the same as the 'well-known' but unknown circuit and 'start deco training with 30 dives' BS.
    It's dangerous and unnecessary but it's OK to promote ideas like this as long as you're a Mod or hardcore-poster on SB.

    Can some cave instructor straighten these 'experts' out, please? Seriously, please?
     
  5. Bennno

    Bennno Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Germany
    687
    252
    63
    I never thought I would say this, but when I read these posts by Bob, John and beester (who ironically is a GUE guy) I feel I can relate to GI3s rants from back in the day... maybe he had a point after all.
     
  6. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    73,126
    57,091
    113
    First off, I've never claimed to be an "expert" ... so you can dispense with that claim right off the bat.

    That said, I've done some 3-hour cave dives in Mexico ... and in some cases, with people I never met until I got down there. I did them because, after an assessment of the dive profile, I determined they were well within the experience level of the team, and that we were properly equipped to do them. And, in fact, they were not a big deal.

    You're right about the navigational decisions ... but I did cover that in my initial statement (did you bother to read that part?). I've found that navigation in the MX caves I visited were the single biggest challenge ... even the marked lines don't seem to be very standardized, and so it's up to the team to make sure everyone's on the same page with how markers get used to avoid confusion. That doesn't require a bunch of work-up dives, or an insistence that everyone have the same acronym on their c-card. It requires a discussion, agreement, and consistent usage of markers within the team so that everyone knows what they mean. Yes, for sure we did some "warm-up" dives before we got to the bigger ones. But doesn't that go without saying? It's just common sense.

    No, I'm not an "expert" ... compared to some of you guys I'm not even all that experienced inside a cave. But I have enough experience and good enough training to know how to honestly plan a dive and assess that the team resources fall well within what I would consider acceptable risk. I know enough to recognize BS when I hear it ... and quite a bit of what I hear coming from some of you more experienced cavers in here fall within that category.

    Spare me your indignation ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
  7. Bennno

    Bennno Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Germany
    687
    252
    63
    Maybe you wanna read the thread before commenting next time? The point of this discussion was whether it is stupid or not to do a 2.5km/7.5'k cave with somebody you just met.

    I will. Can you spare me BS like 'a 3 hour cave dive is not a big deal in Mexico'? Maybe you wanna read some accident reports... most of those accidents happened on dives that weren't big deals. Ever thought about that?

    Just out of curiosity, what would be a 'big deal' to a guy like you, sir? 5 hour cave dive? 10 hours? Does it have to be deeper than 300' to be a big deal for you?
     
  8. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
    73,126
    57,091
    113
    Actually, the point of this discussion was about sidemount, and specifically why GUE doesn't embrace it. The whole "length of my cave dive" thing was between you and a couple other chronic chest-thumpers.

    There are cave systems in MX where you can do a 3-hour dive and rarely, if ever, get below 30 feet. There's little to no flow. Vis is basically clear. So other than the potential for navigational errors ... which I have said all along were the most serious concern ... what are the critical issues that you'd consider makes the dive a "big deal"?

    I don't think of dives in those terms ... I leave that criteria to you "manly men". I dive mostly to relax and enjoy myself. Yes, a 5-hour cave dive would be a big deal to me. But I'm not really interested in doing that dive ... too much like work. A 300' dive would be a big deal ... but I've not been deeper than a bit over 250 ... and that wasn't a big deal to my concern, it was a well-known dive profile on a well-known wreck in Lake Superior, and just a matter of preparation and execution. It was an enjoyable dive ... but I wouldn't call it a big deal.

    Why is a "big deal" dive so important to you? Is that how you measure your worth as a diver?

    My mind doesn't work that way ... I dive to have fun. If it ain't fun, I won't do it. If it's something I want to do, it's not a big deal ... it's just a matter of making sure I'm properly prepared.

    So you tell me ... what's the big deal??

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
    Coztick likes this.
  9. Bennno

    Bennno Banned

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Germany
    687
    252
    63
    I didn't bring that up, Sherlock. Beester did. Please read the thread before commenting on what I said.

    Again, Beester brought this up, not me.

    Since you apparently cannot find it, please read this at least:
    What about being in a cave filled with water hours away from the surface, doing something that could kill you?
     
    PfcAJ likes this.
  10. Razorista

    Razorista Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Germany
    728
    68
    28
    Found someone else to harass @Bennno? :wink:
    Perhaps you should sometimes try to mind your own business?

    If diving is that dangerous in your opinion, perhaps you should just stop yourself.
    If diving is something not to talk about without someone lecturing, just stop.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page