what/how to say 'wtf are you doing?'

[BabyDuck]

since there might be a legitimate reason for someone who is qualified to be cave/cavern diving to dive with what is to most of us non-standard equipment (maybe they're rinsing off after a week of rec ocean diving, maybe they're not from the us, maybe they're trying something new & different that involves pink split fins), how would you approach someone who looks 'suspicious'?

i'm serious with this question. i've seen people who i didn't think looked like cave divers cave diving but not said anything because i couldn't think of a way to ask without coming off like i was the cave police - 'may i see your license and registration??'

i agree that policing ourselves is preferable to being policed by well-intentioned but uncomprehending officials, but i don't think it's a realistic thing to expect with normal egos involved. really, would you be calm in the face of someone asking *you*?

so what approach would be least offensive or most likely to elicit correct info or most likely to get someone to stop diving like they clearly think they are able to?

 

[JeffG]

Laugh and point. Works for me.

 

[bamamedic]

I usually start by introducing myself, making friendly conversation, and finding a way to bring the conversation to their dive plans, experience, and training. If it becomes apparent that they aren't qualified or equipped for the dive they are intending to execute, then I'll start with some gentle education. I've had to use this before in conversations with divers who were intending on diving far outside their abilities or qualifications, but I haven't had the chance to intercept anyone who was gearing up, about to get in the water, or that sort of thing.

Usually, I'll follow up the "gentle education" with an offer to dive within their limits, but with me in my cave gear. I'll show them the effort I take to dive safely, and by this point, they usually understand why it's a bad idea for them to see the bottom of the 150' deep quarry/dive to the gate at Vortex/etc without getting some training first.

Finally, I top it off by emailing them the numbers of a few good cave instructors....

 

[LiteHedded]

i don't approach anyone typically.

 

[ucfdiver]

Just keep Larry Green's cell handy in case things don't work out.

 

[BabyDuck]

james, i agree that's the most likely thing.

i just hear 'we need to police ourselves', but nothing practical on how to do that. remember when elisha (might have) checked tank pressures & the huge stink? she had legitimate concerns. what should she have done? if someone checked your tank pressure on a stage and came to you quietly about it later with an air of 'help me understand your reasoning because i'm concerned for you', how far would most of you slap that person? would in person be different from the spanking she took on the internet? how many of us keep quiet in the face of potential disaster because of her experience?

 

[LiteHedded]

my response would be to tell her that it's none of her business.
also, most of the convoluted goobery i see at popular dive sites belongs to fully 'trained' cave divers.

 

[TSandM]

I think this is a good question and one for which there really isn't going to be a good answer.

Americans tend to be pretty strong on the concept that you have a right to be an idiot if you want to be. Plus, nobody wants to be identified as that idiot. Someone who is preparing to cave dive without training and without proper equipment has probably decided that it's okay to do that, and isn't going to take it well when some well-meaning person attempts to persuade them that they are wrong. Although I think it's incumbent on the cave diving community to attempt to avoid having untrained folks entering caves, I think the people who step up to try to do this should expect a frosty reception.

 

[Cave Diver]

since there might be a legitimate reason for someone who is qualified to be cave/cavern diving to dive with what is to most of us non-standard equipment (maybe they're rinsing off after a week of rec ocean diving, maybe they're not from the us, maybe they're trying something new & different that involves pink split fins), how would you approach someone who looks 'suspicious'?

i'm serious with this question. i've seen people who i didn't think looked like cave divers cave diving but not said anything because i couldn't think of a way to ask without coming off like i was the cave police - 'may i see your license and registration??'

i agree that policing ourselves is preferable to being policed by well-intentioned but uncomprehending officials, but i don't think it's a realistic thing to expect with normal egos involved. really, would you be calm in the face of someone asking *you*?

so what approach would be least offensive or most likely to elicit correct info or most likely to get someone to stop diving like they clearly think they are able to?

Great question!

I try not to be an ass about it until I get a handle on the situation. I'm not the cave police, but at the same time I consider myself a steward and I'm protecting the cave as much as them.

If I see something that looks out of the norm, I'll keep my eye on them. I like to think that I'm pretty good at spotting people that stick out. They might have all the right gear, but are fumbling with putting it together. Or maybe they have all the wrong gear. Whichever the case, I'll keep an eye on them while we gear up.

If something just really strikes me odd, I'll start a conversation. Hey, that's a cool knife, computer, light, whatever. Work into stuff like have you dived here much? etc. Depending on their answers I might let it go, or they might get a warning about entering overhead, etc. and to be careful. I've even been known to hang out in a cavern area to kinda of keep an eye on them and see if they knew what they were doing or adhered to limits as applicable.

I've only physically stopped someone once. Coming out of Ginnie, a couple of OW divers with single tanks were fighting the flow attempting to enter. I stopped right at the exit and shook my finger at them and motioned for them to turn around. It took a minute for them to get the message, but they finally did. By the time we finished our stop at the log they'd disappeared so I never saw them on the surface.

 

[Cave Diver]

remember when elisha (might have) checked tank pressures & the huge stink?

No. What happened?