Question SCUBA, the self-policing industry

[MXGratefulDiver]

At the Atlantis resort in Puerta Galera, Philippines, I had to sit through an instructional video on buoyancy control for photography before I could dive, even though I was not a photographer.

Checkout dives are common on liveaboards and dive operations. I have had to do them on more than a few occasions. After one such dive in Australia, we were divided into groups. One was obviously intensive care. Two others would get increasing levels of independence. My friends and I were allowed to dive unsupervised.

... Cheng and I on our checkout dive in Raja Ampat about a dozen years ago ... when our dive guide came up the ladder he looked at the two of us, smiled, and said "it's so nice to dive with people who know what they're doing" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I had an interesting conversation with a dive instructor about that. He uses his AOW card sometimes because he's found that when he uses his advanced credentials on a boat where he doesn't have a buddy - the DM pairs him up with an inexperienced diver. Which is good for the newbie, but bad for him because it can limit him.

That's what they invariably say, and I respond that it is pretty much a baseless fear. A dive operator who would do that may exist, and it may have happened, but when it does, the operator is an idiot.

Dive operations want return customers, and they want to be recommended to other divers. Pissing off professional divers is the exact opposite of the way to do that.

I am often a single diver because my wife does not dive. I have shown a professional card since I got one 20 years ago, and not only has no one tried to match me with a beginner, it is quite the opposite. They try to put me with the best divers they have because they want me to be happy and recommend them. Dive operators with multiple boats try to fill boats with like divers, so if you want to be on a beginner boat, show a beginner card.

A few years ago I dived with a large operation in Kona, Hawai'i. The boat had about 25 people on it, divided into 3 groups. As the boat was leaving the dock, one of the people in my group said he worked for the shop. He said everyone in the group had more dives and experience than the DM. The DM was new and in training. He asked us to let him roughly lead the dive, but told us to do pretty much what we wanted. Our group went in the water first for each dive--the other groups weren't nearly ready when we splashed. When we were done with some wonderful dives, the other groups were already back on the boats with their gear off. I wonder how many instructors were in those groups, smug in the knowledge that they had pulled one off on the dive operator by showing beginning cards.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Oh man, I was down in the Florida Keys with the gf for my birthday.
Bear in mind, neither of us are "dive pros" - we're more of run of the mill OW/AOW/EANx who dive regularly in South Florida.
The DM asked to put a newbie with us, in a group of 3. I very politely declined since I we already had a pair and it was my birthday, I didn't want to be responsible for someone who I didn't know. Especially being forced into a group-of-three situation with a stranger and my girlfriend. No thanks.
Less than 5 minutes later, the DM asked AGAIN.
I declined again, slightly less politely. The DM didn't back down and continued to argue with me...
Eventually newbie got put with a family of 5-6 (mom/dad/kids) and gf/I could enjoy my birthday dive. Man, it was annoying to have to argue while already in a buddy/buddy pair...

Side note, I did not tip very well that day because of that DM and that experience. Was I justified in shorting the tip due to the persistent and annoying DM? FWIW I would've tipped normally if he had listened to my polite "no" the first time.

I would not have tipped anything at all and I would have let the office know why on my way out the door after we got back. DM is an a$$hole for doing that.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

... that was me ... Bonaire ... probably 15 years ago ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Doesn't Peter have the same story? Or was he sharing yours? Could be the latter.

 

[drrich2]

Instructors, of all people, should know that you ALWAYS reserve the right to say no ... don't dive with someone who you don't want to dive with.

One factor that matters to some (who dislike confrontation or potentially hurting someone's feelings) is whether the staff person asks you discretely in advance, or openly on the dive boat where the newbie can see and hear it and your reaction.

It may not bother some people to say 'no' in that circumstance, but it would bother some others, creating an awkward situation. Bolder, more self-confident/assertive personalities may say 'So what,' but more conflict-avoidant types would rather anticipate the problem and, well, avoid it.

 

[NitroxSam]

The scuba agencies are simply clubs, regardless of any other pretensions that they may possess -- regardless of their capabilities to issue laughable vanity patches for jackets. I cannot recall the last time that I was required to show a C-card for an air-fill, anywhere in the state; and that still pleases me, no end.

In California, where we are regulated to the degree of, say, the transverse colon, it's a welcomed relief that scuba is among the last of outdoor activities to receive extensive scrutiny from the weasels in Sacramento.

Let people make their own decisions with regard to their personal safety, etc, while that opportunity is still within their grasp . . .

Don't worry. They'll soon get round to you if there is tax revenue to be had.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

BOTOH, anything coming from Sheck Exley is, for all practical purposes, coming from Mt. Sinai.

Just Sayin'

Actually, Sheck Exley died in a diving accident. He spoke mostly to cave divers, and had some good ideas. But he should have stuck to writing, instead of trying to set record depth dives. Frankly, I don’t follow what he wrote either; it doesn’t apply to my type of diving.

Death
Exley died, aged 45, on April 6, 1994, while attempting to descend to a depth of over 1,000 feet (300 m) in a freshwater cenote, or sinkhole, called Zacatón in the state of Tamaulipas, Mexico.[9][10][18] He made the dive as part of a dual dive with Jim Bowden, but Bowden aborted his descent early when his gas supply ran low. Exley's body was recovered when his support crew hauled up his unused decompression tanks. It was found that he had looped into the descent line, perhaps to sort out gas issues.[9][10] His wrist-mounted dive computer read a maximum depth of 906 feet (276 m).[19]
The cause of Exley's death could not be determined. Team members concluded the causes "...could include stress of HPNS exacerbated by the narcotic effects of nitrogen at that depth".[20] The line was also wrapped (deliberately) around Exley's tank valves. Bowden and other experts have theorized that Exley might have done this in anticipation of his own death to prevent any dangerous body recovery operations.[9]
The remipede L. exleyi, discovered by Australian cave divers Andrew Poole and Dave Warren in August 1993, was named in honor of Sheck Exley.[21]

Sheck Exley - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Concerning the topic of dive training, rules and regulations, the only regulations in the USA for diving are those promulgated by OSHA for commercial diving.

https://www.osha.gov/commercial-diving

I became an instructor in the early 1970s, and during that time the aim of dive training was both to prevent diver accidents, and to keep any type of regulation of diving by either Federal or State governments at bay. I started diving in 1959, mostly solo and as a teenager, but wasn’t certified LA County until 1963. I learned scuba diving physics by reading JY Cousteau’s The Silent World about three time. I went on to be trained by the U.S. Navy at their Underwater Swimmers School in Key West in 1967, graduated from USAF Pararescue Training in 1967, served for the next years in different locations worldwide, became a NAUI Instructor in 1973, and have continued diving ever since.

Concerning seeing someone doing something unsafe, I talked with some younger people with one of those hand pump-up scuba units, and did talk about some diving physics to them. Even though they were only staying underwater maybe 10 minutes, I cautioned about the hazards of holding their breath on ascent, and said that they really needed to take a scuba course to use that unit safely.

SeaRat
John C. Ratliff
NAUI #2710

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Doesn't Peter have the same story? Or was he sharing yours? Could be the latter.

Peter was on the trip. I have no idea what he said, as I lost touch with him shortly after Lynne died. But I don't recall him being a part of that conversation in Bonaire, so he was probably relating what happened to me.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BoltSnap]

Peter was on the trip. I have no idea what he said, as I lost touch with him shortly after Lynne died. But I don't recall him being a part of that conversation in Bonaire, so he was probably relating what happened to me.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Somebody left the gate open and you snuck upstairs???

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Somebody left the gate open and you snuck upstairs???

... every once in a while I find a hole in the fence ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)