Thank heavens for PADI

[MikeFerrara]

saying once bubbled...
As I said before, I do say "thank heavens for PADI." They certified me. The introduced me to diving and taught me enough to not die. Now, a dozen dives past certification I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on buoyancy without thinking to hard about it, and I managed this weeked to do what I've been aiming at for weeks... hover motionless at 15' with 500PSI. I'm pretty psyched.

No, they didn't teach me how to do that in class, they explained that you should be able to do that and probably would with practice.

Sounds like a standards violation to me. Hovering is a required skill. Mastery is required in CW mod 4 and it's required to be demonstrated in OW dive 4. This is just what I'm talking about.

But.... Big but. I've been diving every weekend I could spare since certification just because I got bitten by the bug bad. I doubt that people who get certified just to putter around the Carribbean once a year are going to be out there as often as I am, even if the two month long class does teach them to share air maskless while hovering motionless... a year later they will have forgotten how.

The fact that a student may stay out of the water long enough to loose skills isn't a very good reason for not teaching those skills in the first place.

 

[Walter]

"who has done the most to make the dive industry what it is today.

That, without doubt, would be PADI."

No arguments there, I blame them too.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter once bubbled...
"who has done the most to make the dive industry what it is today.

That, without doubt, would be PADI."

No arguments there, I blame them too.

LOL

 

[jepuskar]

12 hours of pool time minimum!!!

I think I got under 5 hours over 2 days...breezed right through the skills without a problem, got some play time in there.

I'm still alive and I think I have only killed about 3-4 acres of Coral last year....this year, I'm looking to stay under 2 acres.

 

[Whirling Girl]

saying once bubbled...
I'm wondering how long a class the "PADI Sucks" crew believes is reasonable to teach trim, air-sharing with lassie-faire, and perfect buoyancy control.

Well I certainly don't have it down yet. Like I said, it took four months for me to learn how to backward kick. But if I hadn't been shown how to do it, and told that I could and should learn it, I wouldn't have figured it out for myself.

I understand that a classes need to involve more than, "Here's a tank, you use it to breathe underwater," but the skills you are criticizing PADI for failing to teach you yourselves admit come only with practice and practice and a little practice. So are diving classes to last for two months? Three? How many people do you know who can commit to that?

No. And you're right. Practice, practice. I think it's more of the overall attitude/orientation that doesn't usually send students out to keep practicing and working on skills. It's the attitude of much of the industry.

Now, a dozen dives past certification I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on buoyancy without thinking to hard about it, and I managed this weeked to do what I've been aiming at for weeks... hover motionless at 15' with 500PSI. I'm pretty psyched.

Cool! Seriously. But were you horizontal or vertical? How much weight are you carrying? Dry or wet suit? Size tank? Why 3 minutes at 15'?

But.... Big but. I've been diving every weekend I could spare since certification just because I got bitten by the bug bad. I doubt that people who get certified just to putter around the Carribbean once a year are going to be out there as often as I am, even if the two month long class does teach them to share air maskless while hovering motionless... a year later they will have forgotten how.

True. But the Caribbean vacation divers can kill themselves, their buddies and the coral just as easily as the rest of us can, so I think there's no argument there for "SCUBA lite". They will learn neutral buoyancy if they have an awareness that walking on the bottom, or smacking into a reef, is bad, and bad form.

So am I, with my PADI OW card and diving every weekend or two, less safe than an advanced graduate of PDS (Perfect Diving School) who logs three dives a year over the course of one week?

Safety depends on awareness and skills and to some degree, gear. So, if that's true, then answer it yourself. It's a loaded question. But if you rephrased it as "Would I, without the buddy skills and awareness and streamlined gear and redundancy calculations and buoyancy control, be less safe than I would be with the buddy skills and awareness and streamlined gear configuration and redundancy calculations and buoyancy control?"

Um, yes.

Margaret

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
12 hours of pool time minimum!!!

I think I got under 5 hours over 2 days...breezed right through the skills without a problem, got some play time in there.

I'm still alive and I think I have only killed about 3-4 acres of Coral last year....this year, I'm looking to stay under 2 acres.

Yes, fortunately most survive but unfortunately not all do. Some stick with it long enough to learn on their own what they should have learned before going to OW. Others come here and maybe go take a DIRF. Others just bumble through a few dives and give up because they're not having fun. Others loose interest because they lack the confidence to dive without a DM and give the sport up because they can only afford a babbysitter a couple times a year.

 

[diverbrian]

El Orans once bubbled...


Inquiring minds would like to know: what's the difference between Navy and SEALs?

Navy Divers: I had one in my division. They teach them like paratroopers. They run for the sheer fun of it and believe in physical fitness like it is the be-all and end-all of diving when they come out of school. They do basic, emergency repairs and act as rescue swimmers. Oh, and on subs they run the physical fitness program.

Navy SEAL's: Commandos. They fail the bulk of the people that start the training and those people are in the physical or mental conditioning of the people above (or better). They tend to be exceptional divers. Their unit was started as Underwater Demolition Experts. They planted bombs on boats and defused the bombs and mines on the US ships that were found. They improved from there. The ones that pass are known for being among the toughest men alive (other Special Forces may argue that and I won't debate the point because I am not even close to the first category).

That is the difference. My point is that the average person looking into diving would probably not pass Navy Dive School. I believed that those were the standards and found out differently a year or two ago. I didn't/don't see were those kinds of standards for recreational divers were beneficial to diving. I agree that standards could use improvement. However, there will always be room for improvement in this business. But, how far do we want to take it? Let's think while we are complaining about standards not being tough enough.

 

[TCDiver1]

Walter once bubbled...

No arguments there, I blame them too.

Whats funny about this to me is, when it comes to PADI, you can only find the negative side of any topic. It really hurts to admit that PADI has done more to promote the dive industry than anyone else, eh Walter? I'm talking creating jobs, bringing money into communities, donating to conservation efforts and starting businesses which generally stimulate economies in a positive way.

Or are those all bad things too?

 

[jepuskar]

He will find something negative to say...something like...


If it means certifying divers who have no business being in the water in the first place then yes, it is all negative. It is like the mob building a new park in your neighborhood. It seems like a great thing, until you look at its source!

Is that right Walter? Uhh Walter? come on SAY IT SAY IT!! I know you want to...come on COME ON!!!!

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'll admit that tailoring training to maximize participation and equipment sales has done wonders for the manufacturers, resorts and other portions of the econemy.

I guess a valid question here is what are our goals. Speaking for myself, the kind of training encouraged by the agencies and especially the manufacturers holds no interest for me and infact many concerns.

I was tought to dive and teach the same as many others. I doubt I even spent 5 hours in the pool. The course director who prepared me for the IE tought me to be efficient and finish a class quickly.

The first class I ever tought was a class of six. The shop owner was displeased that it took me six hours to complete the 5 confined water modules. I found out first hand that this system doesn't work well and there are much better ways. As time went on and I gained experience my classes got longer, not shorter.

I will say this though. Telling students the whole story will eliminate much of the equipment being manufactured from concideration. That wouldn't be good for the manufacturers or the dive shops who need to sell the stuff and indirectly wouldn't do the agencies any good either since it's the shops and instructors who pay membership dues which is a significant percentage of the agencies income. The standards keep getting easier which enables the pro members to certify and sell equipment to more people. If the pro members of an agency make more they'll hold more pro members and make more money.

Good diving is way down the list in priority. The diver isn't the primary customer in the training game, the instructors and shops are. There is profit in keeping the student diver ignorant.

If the shoe fits, wear it.