Thank heavens for PADI

[Whirling Girl]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
Maybe the word doesn't appear, because for the type of diving that most open water students do, it's not that important.

It's incredibly important. I think that open water students should be taught, in ALL open water courses, that neutral buoyancy and buoyancy control is absolutely vital and they need to practice it and they won't be really, really good at it until they have spent alot more time practicing. They also need to be taught to continue practicing their skills, like mask drills, out of air drills, etc., while neutrally buoyant, on every dive in order to make the skills instinctive, second nature, and able to possibly save their lives or the lives of their buddies.

Here's an example. I just learned to fin backwards this weekend. It took me four months of practice. I practiced alot, mostly during deco stops, and was told by one of my buddies that I didn't even look like the proverbial monkey violating a football; I looked like a monkey looking at a football, not sure how to start. And let me tell you, what a useful skill to have! And I feel a HUGE sense of accomplishment.

Do they teach backward kicking in PADI? Nope. Grrrrrrr, why not? One of my buddies listened to a PADI instructor teaching on a beach and a student asked, in all seriousness, how to go backwards. The instructor demonstrated that you would grab onto something on the bottom and push yourself back. (If some PADI instructors teach it on their own, that's great, keep doing it.)

Why wasn't I given even the mechanics of it, so that I at least have the option of trying to learn it as I continued to dive?

Because it's hard, that's why. At least for most of us who are not fish. And PADI does not want to teach what is hard, what students might feel frustrated by, what might take practice beyond the open water course to actually be able to do for the first time. And doesn't want to require that its instructors know how to do these things either.

To me, that's scary and wrong.

Me, I just want to have fun, see some fish, catch a lobster, maybe find an old anchor. I neither want nor need to put on a skills demonstration every time I dive.

I wanna do barrel rolls.

I wanna rodeo the anchor rode.

Yep. Fun!

Me too. And I have more fun now than I could have ever imagined.

But you have to know how to do things right before you can do them wrong and have fun with it.

My buddies and I practice our skills because neutral buoyancy, buoyancy control, and good skills are actually a blast. I want to say that they also make diving safer, and therefore alot more fun, but really its just a lot of fun to be able to do cool stuff. Taking my mask off and leaving it off and just hovering is really fun, actually.

And I can now say, after almost 100 dives beyond my DIRF course, that sometimes, I have a few minutes, on most but not all dives, when I feel perfectly dialed in. It's those few, elusive minutes that tell me what diving could really be like.

Some of the divers I dive with are GUE instructors and Tech grads, and they have incredible experience and skills. Does that make them uptight, no fun meanies? Sometimes. (kidding! I'm kidding. OK, only when teaching) But those skills make it easier for them to goof around alot as well. The better your skills are, the moreoptions you have in the water.

And while they are goofing around, they still know everything that's going on around them (situational awareness), they are rock solid in the water (neutrally buoyant), their gear isn't going to get tangled or catch on anything (logical, streamlined and minimal), and if, during the shenanigans, their mask was kicked off or they suddenly had a freeflow, they could instantly hover while deciding what to do (problem analysis and management). In the freeflowing reg scenario they would decide whether to a) breathe off their freeflowing reg, which is not really the best option, or b) have someone else donate their long hose while they shut their post down (skills).

I aspire to that level of skilled goofiness. And I practice it on every dive.

Margaret

 

[MikeFerrara]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


Maybe the word doesn't appear, because for the type of diving that most open water students do, it's not that important.

Having never dove with you, or met other than here, I don't know why you dive, that is to say, what makes it fun for you. But, based on your posts, it seems like you, (as well as several others), are only enjoying diving when you, and everyone around you, are performing with flawless abilities.

Me, I just want to have fun, see some fish, catch a lobster, maybe find an old anchor. I neither want nor need to put on a skills demonstration every time I dive.

I wanna do barrel rolls.

I wanna rodeo the anchor rode.

I wanna stand on one finger on the bottom.

Yep. Fun!

Define important. I see many divers who are strugling such that it just doesn't look like their having fun. Saw a guy Saturday fighting to swim along. He was apparantly looking for his group. He apparantly just gave up and stood their on the bottom, like he was standing on the corner waiting for a bus, waiting for some one he knew to happen buy. Didn't look like fun.

the weekend before, my class was interupted by a couple of divers who seemingly too exhausted (or scared) to continue barged onto the platform we were working over and just lay down and rested while nervously exchanging ok's. After several minutes another diver walked up (who had apparantly been seperated) and they all went off together. Yep looks like fun. OTOH, divers with adequate training don't seem to have those clucters on every dive. The divers who are comfortable and in control seem to have way more fun. The training needed to get there is much longer and certainly it isn't harder. In fact it's easier on every one including the instructor. It's just different but the ones who haven't tried it don't know that and just keep defending what they do even though it doesn't work well.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Diversauras once bubbled...


ditto...

You don't think buoyancy control and trim is important? How about being able to handle a free flow or share air off the bottom and without loosing control?

How about if I told you my student learn those skills much faster, better and easier when they have spent some time on buoyancy control and trim? It doesn't cost anything extra to provide so why not do it? It also greatly reduces task loading.

The only reason I know of that it's not tought is that the teachers don't know it so they can't teach it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Why shouldn't divers have a choice?
Why shouldn't there be an alternative?
Who do you think was having more fun, the divers who had to lay on our platform to rest and sort things out or my students who hovered above watching?

 

[TCDiver1]

Lawman once bubbled...
Without PADI and it's marketing/promotion there wouldn't
be any dive industry. It's the scuba Walmart.

Well on this one, i have to agree with my fellow Michiganian .... his point may be at least one part troll but he is right on IMO.

I seem to recall a poll on this very board asking what agency originally exposed posters to diving and as i recall some 60% responded PADI.

I say again, 60% of the people on this board, who responded, were certified by PADI first. How many would have gotten certified if PADI wasn't around. Hard to say, but one thing is for sure, it would have been less.

Good skills, bad skills, like it or hate it for whatever reasons you want but.... it is true.

 

[El Orans]

diverbrian once bubbled...


I mean I didn't dive for years because I thought that you had to be able to graduate Navy Dive school (notice I didn't say SEAL's, I am well aware of the difference) to be worthy to call yourself a diver.

Inquiring minds would like to know: what's the difference between Navy and SEALs?

 

[Whirling Girl]

gedunk once bubbled...

Well on this one, i have to agree with my fellow Michiganian .... his point may be at least one part troll but he is right on IMO.

I say again, 60% of the people on this board, who responded, were certified by PADI first. How many would have gotten certified if PADI wasn't around. Hard to say, but one thing is for sure, it would have been less.

Well, of course we all had to start somewhere.

But where I started could have been alot better. I don't think I would have kept diving if I hadn't figured out how deficient my education had been and taken steps to correct it. I would like to see some changes happen for all the open water agencies, so that other students can get a better, more thorough education than I did. So that diving is safer for everyone.

Margaret

 

[saying]

I'm wondering how long a class the "PADI Sucks" crew believes is reasonable to teach trim, air-sharing with lassie-faire, and perfect buoyancy control.

I understand that a classes need to involve more than, "Here's a tank, you use it to breathe underwater," but the skills you are criticizing PADI for failing to teach you yourselves admit come only with practice and practice and a little practice. So are diving classes to last for two months? Three? How many people do you know who can commit to that?

As I said before, I do say "thank heavens for PADI." They certified me. The introduced me to diving and taught me enough to not die. Now, a dozen dives past certification I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on buoyancy without thinking to hard about it, and I managed this weeked to do what I've been aiming at for weeks... hover motionless at 15' with 500PSI. I'm pretty psyched.

No, they didn't teach me how to do that in class, they explained that you should be able to do that and probably would with practice.

But.... Big but. I've been diving every weekend I could spare since certification just because I got bitten by the bug bad. I doubt that people who get certified just to putter around the Carribbean once a year are going to be out there as often as I am, even if the two month long class does teach them to share air maskless while hovering motionless... a year later they will have forgotten how.

So am I, with my PADI OW card and diving every weekend or two, less safe than an advanced graduate of PDS (Perfect Diving School) who logs three dives a year over the course of one week?

 

[TCDiver1]

Whirling Girl once bubbled...
Well, of course we all had to start somewhere.
But where I started could have been alot better. I don't think I would have kept diving if I hadn't figured out how deficient my education had been and taken steps to correct it. I would like to see some changes happen for all the open water agencies, so that other students can get a better, more thorough education than I did. So that diving is safer for everyone.

Margaret,
Many of us got by just fine for many years prior to reading some of the things i read on this board. Now i'm all for improvements if they make sense. But i am in the minority on this board when i say, as i have said many times before, the OW education system is far from broken IMO. Could it be improved? Sure, most things can be improved depending on your perspective.

Besides, the point i was trying to make, was that lawmans point, was not about skills but rather, who has done the most to make the dive industry what it is today.

That, without doubt, would be PADI.

 

[MikeFerrara]

saying once bubbled...
I'm wondering how long a class the "PADI Sucks" crew believes is reasonable to teach trim, air-sharing with lassie-faire, and perfect buoyancy control.

I understand that a classes need to involve more than, "Here's a tank, you use it to breathe underwater," but the skills you are criticizing PADI for failing to teach you yourselves admit come only with practice and practice and a little practice. So are diving classes to last for two months? Three? How many people do you know who can commit to that?

First off, it isn't about perfect anything.

I find that things go great with about 15 hours of pool time. 12 hours is marginal but I can pull it off with some classes. A large part of this time is practicing buoyancy control and propulsion techniques. With some proficiency in this area all the other skills come very easy. Without it all you can do is sit on the bottom doing skills and if the training stops there it has little value. If you have to share air on a dive there may be no bottom. Why would I certify a student who I know will have real trouble if the have a free flow or have to share air before they have a chance to finish learning how to dive. I seems like a real disservice to me.

We spend some time in the classroom discussing the mechanics. We spend some time on the floor practicing position and the component parts of the various kicks.

You're right, many people won't commit to a class that takes 10 days in all. I find that I don't feel right about certifying some one who won't. I don't have a solution for this nor am I looking for one. It takes the time it takes. If you don't want to do it then don't. My goal is to teach those interested to dive. My goal is not to see how many divers I can put in the water.

For those who want something faster, there are plenty of classes that only spend 5 or six hours in the pool and just enough class time to take the quizes and tests and finish up with 4, 20 minute dives. These are the ones though that I'm trying to warn people about.