Thank heavens for PADI

[MikeFerrara]

was that the serious divers that visit ScubaBoard are 72 percent PADI. That would indicate to me that recreational
SCUBA is PADI. There are other fringe agencies, but when you talk about the SCUBA industry you're talking about PADI.
PADI is the standard.

Nothing new here. We already know that PADI certifies far more divers than any other agency

Perhaps we should talk less about PADI and more about how the other agencies survive or if they even should.

That's like suggesting that since there are more meals eaten at McDonalds than at anyplace else that maybe the smaller places shouldn't exist. Then not only would Sat afternoon with the bottom dredgers stink but so would Friday night out for dinner. LOL

Quantity and quality are not the same thing. Most divers aren't certified with PADI by choice nor do they know one agency from another when they are. They go to the closest or otherwise most convenient, fastes, cheapest place.

 

[Capnsnott]

Interesting thread. I didn't read every post, I'm sitting at work taking a break. But I have to chime in. IMO:
When I got certified in 85, there was only one shop in town and they were an SSI store. I didn't have a clue there was any one else out there. I think now days, most shops are PADI. If the other guys were interested in a piece of the pie, they would get their instructors associated with shops. I have one shop in the Denver area that has a NAUI instructor and he isn't even advertised. NAUI wants too much money for the shop to list themselves on the NAUI web page (way to cut their own throat). I would have done all of my advanced classes from him had I known earlier.

From a diving standpoint, the biggest certifier is always going to be the most scrutinized. PADI is in the spotlight because they wanted to make a business grow and did it. Face it, this is a recreation $$$ driven business. If the tech world were in power, we would have in depth, high quality classes and instructors as the norm. But how many of those rec divers became tech divers? They new they needed more and so the quality vs quantity agencies came about. Back up the cart and you see we had to have a PADI type organization start everything going. If not for them making diving profitable for the big manufacturers, we would be wearing horse collars and sucking air from some scarry stuff. I spoke to someone this weekend that got certified in 71, the stuff he was using to dive with was whacked out.

You can beat on PADI all you want, but just keep in mind you probably wouldn't be diving anywhere near as safe and comfy as you are today.

Let's go kill Henry Ford's family for being related to the guy that invented all those nasty automobiles that kill so many people every year.................
Ummmm, yeah, get a clue people. I like my Halcyon bp/wing, scuba pro regs, mask, fins and such. I really like the AL80 I dive with and the CLEAN air I breath. Get the point? I have to say Thanks PADI!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Back up the cart and you see we had to have a PADI type organization start everything going. If not for them making diving profitable for the big manufacturers, we would be wearing horse collars and sucking air from some scarry stuff. I spoke to someone this weekend that got certified in 71, the stuff he was using to dive with was whacked out.

You can beat on PADI all you want, but just keep in mind you probably wouldn't be diving anywhere near as safe and comfy as you are today.

Let's go kill Henry Ford's family for being related to the guy that invented all those nasty automobiles that kill so many people every year.................
Ummmm, yeah, get a clue people. I like my Halcyon bp/wing, scuba pro regs, mask, fins and such. I really like the AL80 I dive with and the CLEAN air I breath. Get the point? I have to say Thanks PADI!

You may be thanking the wrong people.

About all the real inovations in equipment and techniques have come about through technical diving and specifically cave diving. I'm talking about improvements like first bc's, alternate air sources, manifolds, backplates, new decompression strategies, the use of mixed gasses (nitrox and trimix) and many others. Neither PADI or the large equipment manufacturers had much to do with it in fact they do a pretty good job of resisting change as a rule.

 

[gj62]

You may be thanking the wrong people.

About all the real inovations in equipment and techniques have come about through technical diving and specifically cave diving. I'm talking about improvements like first bc's, alternate air sources, manifolds, backplates, new decompression strategies, the use of mixed gasses (nitrox and trimix) and many others. Neither PADI or the large equipment manufacturers had much to do with it in fact they do a pretty good job of resisting change as a rule.

I think Frankenmule's point was (and I agree with him), that it took PADI to take diving to a larger audience, thereby making it a profitable venture for companies to mass produce diving equipment, invest in R&D, etc. Tech divers may have made the innovations, but without an organization to broaden the market, you would not have the manufacturers and the pricing for equipment that we enjoy today.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think Frankenmule's point was (and I agree with him), that it took PADI to take diving to a larger audience, thereby making it a profitable venture for companies to mass produce diving equipment, invest in R&D, etc. Tech divers may have made the innovations, but without an organization to broaden the market, you would not have the manufacturers and the pricing for equipment that we enjoy today.

PADI and the major manufacturers may have put resorts up all over the world but little or none of the equipment that I use comes from the major manufacturers and in most cases it's stuff that untill recently wasn't even offered by them at all. Backplates, wings, paddle style fins and decent regs ect have been around for a long time. For the most part we still buy them from the same and the same sorts of companie as divers did 20+ years ago. Diverite was the first company manufacturing a bp similar to what was designed by Greg Flanigan. The big manufacturers have focused on pretty colored disfunctional gimicks that they could sell to tourists who know more about fashion than they know about diving. Other small companies have sprung up to provide divers with reliable lights, reels and so on that the major manufacturers weren't providing. Reels are a good example since some of the ones thought of as being the best have been manufactured by really small manufacturers working in their garages.

Shoot, scubapro just now started to manufactur jet fins in a size that'll fit over dry suit boots. For years we've been using fins manufactured by IDI (a very old basic design) that I purchased from Global (the company that I buy gas blending supplies from).

The major manufacturers aren't doing anything good for either our supply or pricing. In fact they do their level best to prevent divers from being able to service their own equipment and they do their best to artificially control pricing and where and how equipment can be sold/purchased.


Now, I'll admit that it probably made it easier for me to get on the phone and arrange to get certified but I'm not sure that it should have been so easy.

The tourist industry may have enjoyed benefites but not diving.

 

[s7595]

mike
I am sure you are a great instructor . as a new diver with 25 loged dives after checkout dives ,I have a few words about instructors , I am padi cert , my confined instructor was realy strict ,but fair and realy loved teaching ,owns his biz does not teach for money , my open check out dives was a padi,ssi and she was realy good also went with a student who was ssi . this was done in fl . 3 friends of mine allso got cert 2 ssi ,1padi
the ssi teacher was realy bad , the padi teacher allso left out some of the skills reguired . now for the divers the ssi guys were realy scared the first few dives me and my buddy helped calm them checked on them as we dive with policy check buddy every 1-3 mins ,check guages same , the padi guy even though teacher left out skills was okay in water did realy well , now I am not saying I have the best of skills myself but I try and always watch for buddy I give credit to my first teacher and his dm who helped the students . on aboat dive a women with 45 dives was still very unconfortable in water she was good skill wise but had to have dm with her . my point it is the diver and good instructor not the agency
sorry for long post

 

[MikeFerrara]

mike
on aboat dive a women with 45 dives was still very unconfortable in water she was good skill wise but had to have dm with her .

This is the kind of stuff that has to make you think.

my point it is the diver and good instructor not the agency
sorry for long post

I agree. A student who applies themself will learn with any instructor or even no instructor at all. What does that say about the instructor though?

An instructor can do a good job reagrdless of the agency or their standards. What does that say about the agency?

 

[gj62]

PADI and the major manufacturers may have put resorts up all over the world but little or none of the equipment that I use comes from the major manufacturers...

Economic principles are not limited to major manufacturers... The more popular diving is, the more folks that will find their niche within the sport and create a demand for the gear. I don't think you can mount a valid arguement that another entity other than PADI has been at the forefront of promoting the sport for 20+ years...

 

[Bubble Blower 479]

This is the kind of stuff that has to make you think.

I agree. A student who applies themself will learn with any instructor or even no instructor at all. What does that say about the instructor though?

An instructor can do a good job reagrdless of the agency or their standards. What does that say about the agency?

I still think the biggest factor is the student. I think very little depends on the agency since they all are very similar. At least in the Rec side of things. I think the Instructor makes a big difference in what ever the subject is. Thoughout college I shopped for the good instructors when ever I had the option.

The student is the most important factor in what kind of a diver they become. Even DIR training still depends on the students attitude and willingness to learn and then follow the standards. Like I said previously, when I certified in 74 I had a total of 10 min. of OW time. Due to the fact that my NASDS instructor taught us well and I faithfully followed his direction has made me a safe diver.

I wonder what the failure rate of tech students is. Just because they want to be a tech diver doesn't mean they will succeed. If they were always the best students and divers there would be now problem, however, if they are not going to follow the rules they shouldn't be certified either. My guess is that DIR courses have a number of people fail because they can't do what is required regardless of their training.

I think PADI has been a major player in moving the industry forward even when they didn't want to go in a certain direction. I also think all the others have and their own areas of influence. Without the Tech and yes, the DIR group, we would all be wishing for something better. But that does not mean that PADI, NAUI, and SSI have done nothing for the world of diving.

 

[H2Andy]

i used to teach (not diving) and i would tell all my students that i couldnt' learn for
them. i could make their jobs easier, but i couldn't do it for them. they had to learn
themselves.

a good instructor is one that makes learning easier. a bad instructor makes learning harder.

it really is that simple.