Thank heavens for PADI

[MikeFerrara]

That's what the agencies are training - tourist divers - not technical divers, not advanced S&R divers, but tourists that want to experience the underwater realm. I see nothing wrong with that. For those that want more, other agencies have begun to fill that niche (GUE, for example).

I am of the beliefe that a tourist at 60 ft needs the same skills as any one else at 60 ft. This is where I totally part company with the entire recreational diving industry and totally agree with GUE.

If you don't want to, you shouldn't. You may be the best diver ever, and once maybe you were a darn fine instructor, but if your heart isn't in it, at some point your head won't be either, and that's not fair to your students. (You still may be "better" than some, but as I said before, there is no "instructor skill check" done by the agencies, which I think is a shame).

Well, I certainly wouldn't claim to be the best diver or instructor but I'm learning. I still enjoy teaching but not as the recreational diving industry has defined it. The students who are looking to go down that path are better off with some one else for an instructor and that's what I tell them.

I don't teach PADI classes at all anymore. I'm still active with IANTD and while they aren't perfect it's required that basic skills be assessed on each dive and that the instructor be in the water to do it. And yes the skill rating may be somewhat subjective but it at least makes it clear that solid skills are a requirement of every dive. The way I handle it is to have the student fill out the skill sheet themselves and then we compare notes. When we both agree that things are up to snuff then we're done.

 

[d33ps1x]

This thread has to be some kind of record now...

 

[GDI]

PADI's marketing programs do do a lot for the industry. I read that TDI/SDI is looking to work with other agencies to improve the dive industry's marketing even more. This could be a up hill effort.

 

[gj62]

I am of the beliefe that a tourist at 60 ft needs the same skills as any one else at 60 ft. This is where I totally part company with the entire recreational diving industry and totally agree with GUE.

J|I agree too, - but I think the skills in most OW courses are sufficient for that if correctly taught and assessed...

 

[MikeFerrara]

PADI's marketing programs do do a lot for the industry.

What?

 

[NEWreckDiver]

I've outlined some of the things that we do when teaching an OW classes in lots of posts.

When teaching an AOW class we start with a shallow skills dive. When I was teaching a PADI class we called Peak Performance Buoyancy. LOL

Prior to the dive I give the same weight. balance and trim lecture that I do in an OW class. We work on body position and kicks on land.

In the water we get students weighted and trimmed so they can stay horizontal. Then we go over controlled ascents and descents as buddy pairs, air sharing (off the bottom of course), mask R&R (off the bottom of course), finning technique and turns.

When that's solid enough I run a line course which student use like a buoyancy control course. I don't like hoops because a student can be all over the place then line up with the hoop and slip through and they think they did ok. The line slopes up, down and makes sharp turns. The students follow the line in buddy teams. If they can't stay with the line or with each other it's obvious to them.

Only after this stuff will I even begin to consider something like a "deep dive". If you can't dive shallow there isn't any sense in going deep, IMO.

We do a similar routine on the front end of pretty much all classes. for students who are pretty good it might take 20 minutes but for some it's multiple dives.

When I teach an OW class we work on all this stuff before we even go to OW and once we do and we double check to make sure we're in good shape and every ones comfortable in a controlled area before we start dive 1.

So why couldn't you do these things for your students when you where a PADI instuctor?

I do not disagree with your reasons for being concerned about your students skill. You should be commended for it. But there was nothing keeping you from going above and beyond the PADI standards.

Face it, you love to PADI bash. Was there something more to your departure from PADI?

 

[Warren_L]

So why couldn't you do these things for your students when you where a PADI instuctor?

I do not disagree with your reasons for being concerned about your students skill. You should be commended for it. But there was nothing keeping you from going above and beyond the PADI standards.

Face it, you love to PADI bash. Was there something more to your departure from PADI?

I would be careful of exceeding PADI standards. PADI indicates that there could be liability issues by doing this.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So why couldn't you do these things for your students when you where a PADI instuctor?

I did do the same as a PADI instructor.

I do not disagree with your reasons for being concerned about your students skill. You should be commended for it. But there was nothing keeping you from going above and beyond the PADI standards.

Face it, you love to PADI bash. Was there something more to your departure from PADI?

I strongly disagree with PADI standards and refuse to pay them every year.

These low standards also make it possible (I believe by design) for shops to use cut rate classes (loss leader) to sell equipment which in turn supports the way many of the manufacturers wish to do business.

If one instructor teaches a poor class that's short and convenient for a low price and another teaches a great class that takes a little more work at a fair price but both issue the same card how is the prospective student who has a vacation planned looking to get certified to distinguish? Often all they know is that they've decided to try diving this year and they were told that they need one of these cards so they go looking for the cheapest and fastest to get.

To me a PADI class is the short cheap class (along with some others). That's the bar and the value that they've set for their training. Unfortunatley it's becoming the standard for a OW card across the board.

That's really all there is to it. I've discussed this stuff with folks at PADI and they didn't have a problem with all the shops and instructors who provide the absolute minimum required in order to pump students through. They seemed very aware of what goes on but didn't seem to have a problem with it. That's when it became clear to me that my business with PADI was comming to an end.

 

[gj62]

To me a PADI class is the short cheap class (along with some others). That's the bar and the value that they've set for their training. Unfortunatley it's becoming the standard for a OW card across the board.

That's really all there is to it. I've discussed this stuff with folks at PADI and they didn't have a problem with all the shops and instructors who provide the absolute minimum required in order to pump students through. They seemed very aware of what goes on but didn't seem to have a problem with it. That's when it became clear to me that my business with PADI was comming to an end.

The circle is now completed.

As was previously stated, PADI, SSI, NAUI all pretty much have the same basic requirements now for OW. While they've changed slightly, they have not gotten *that* much easier (an open water exploration dive being credited as an OW dive nothwithstanding). These programs have turned out reasonably safe divers for decades. Mike, I think you've got an uphill battle to fight with few weapons to use. If there were proof that these agencies turned out divers who were more unsafe than say, skiers, you would have a better chance...

 

[NEWreckDiver]

I did do the same as a PADI instructor.

I strongly disagree with PADI standards and refuse to pay them every year.

These low standards also make it possible (I believe by design) for shops to use cut rate classes (loss leader) to sell equipment which in turn supports the way many of the manufacturers wish to do business.

If one instructor teaches a poor class that's short and convenient for a low price and another teaches a great class that takes a little more work at a fair price but both issue the same card how is the prospective student who has a vacation planned looking to get certified to distinguish? Often all they know is that they've decided to try diving this year and they were told that they need one of these cards so they go looking for the cheapest and fastest to get.

To me a PADI class is the short cheap class (along with some others). That's the bar and the value that they've set for their training. Unfortunatley it's becoming the standard for a OW card across the board.

That's really all there is to it. I've discussed this stuff with folks at PADI and they didn't have a problem with all the shops and instructors who provide the absolute minimum required in order to pump students through. They seemed very aware of what goes on but didn't seem to have a problem with it. That's when it became clear to me that my business with PADI was comming to an end.

I guess I can’t understand that. I also guess I am really fortunately that I am not involved in this type of situation. Too bad for you and your business. Is there any agency in your option that would meet your standards?