Thank heavens for PADI

[Whirling Girl]

TJ, I can totally understand your point. I don't think anyone is saying that PADI is the devil.

OK, maybe some are.

But even though PADI has certified 10 kazillion divers, and that's great for the sport, bladee bladee blah, that doesn't mean it couldn't improve it's diver education programs.

Backward Finning: Thanks for being honest. But what do you mean, you've never had a situation come up that has 'required' backward finning? You're kidding, right? Right? Tell me you're kidding.

Haven't you ever wanted to back up? Just, simply, go backwards? I swear it drove me crazy not being able to do it for the last few months, especially when I could see all my buddies using it all the time.

Margaret

 

[ElectricZombie]

concollective once bubbled...
So let me ask you NAUI-elites (frankly, the tone is revolting) a question: did you become aware of PADI's alleged inadequacies because you actually underwent PADI training, or did you, in one of your more self-congratulatory moments after you got NAUI training, tell yourself that the training you got just had to be the best as an a priori matter?

This discussion is not about how NAUI (or any other organization for that matter) is better than PADI. ALL the organizations have problems, some a lot more than others.

This thread simply points out that PADI is not turning out divers remotely proficient in basic skills. This is not an agency argument; PADI is not getting the job done and is focusing on quantity over quality.

 

[Whirling Girl]

concollective once bubbled...
If you've read this far, let me go on to ask: I've just gotten OW from PADI and, so far I think, have not killed myself. Or come close. I'm very interested in AOW and am looking for the best org to train with. Is there a NAUI proponent out there who can, without all the bull, rhetoric, and arrogance, articulate to me why I should choose NAUI rather than PADI to continue my training? A nice, dispassionate, articulate response would be great; the haughty tenor of most of you NAUI guys really makes you far less credible. And unlikable.

Oh, gah, don't make me say it. Don't. Please. Aaaarrrggghhh.

Looking for good continuing education after your openwater course? TAKE DIR Fundamentals.

There. I said it. If you hate NAUI "arrogance" you probably think GUE is the devil. So don't kill me for saying it, but that's my suggestion for the best advanced training for your money.

I'm probably dog food now.



Margaret

 

[concollective]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...


This discussion is not about how NAUI (or any other organization for that matter) is better than PADI. ALL the organizations have problems, some a lot more than others.

This thread simply points out that PADI is not turning out divers remotely proficient in basic skills. This is not an agency argument; PADI is not getting the job done and is focusing on quantity over quality.

Yeah, I got it, EZ, but the essence of my question was: why and how do you know that about PADI?

 

[concollective]

Whirling Girl once bubbled...

Oh, gah, don't make me say it. Don't. Please. Aaaarrrggghhh.

Looking for good continuing education after your openwater course? TAKE DIR Fundamentals.

There. I said it. If you hate NAUI "arrogance" you probably think GUE is the devil. So don't kill me for saying it, but that's my suggestion for the best advanced training for your money.

I'm probably dog food now.



Margaret

Not at all, Margaret. What rankled me most about the NAUI folks (some of them, anyway) was the tone, not the substance. I genuinely appreciate the advice.

 

[Whirling Girl]

concollective once bubbled...


Not at all, Margaret. What rankled me most about the NAUI folks (some of them, anyway) was the tone, not the substance. I genuinely appreciate the advice.

Oh. Phew.

I took PADI openwater in January of this year, so I have recent experience with them. I know nothing about the comparisons between PADI, NAUI and SSI as far as curriculum goes. I think they are all governed by the same certifying body, but that's all I think I know.

I just think that my basic dive education was deficient in many ways and I would like to see it change, so that people are safer divers. If that means fewer divers, so be it. I can live with that. Then there will be fewer tragedies.

Margaret

 

[concollective]

Whirling Girl once bubbled...

Oh. Phew.

I took PADI openwater in January of this year, so I have recent experience with them. I know nothing about the comparisons between PADI, NAUI and SSI as far as curriculum goes. I think they are all governed by the same certifying body, but that's all I think I know.

I just think that my basic dive education was deficient in many ways and I would like to see it change, so that people are safer divers. If that means fewer divers, so be it. I can live with that. Then there will be fewer tragedies.

Margaret

You had nothing to be worried about. I just really hate zealots.

So just out of curiosity, what did you find deficient about your OW with PADI? Aside from the fact that my instructor was a belligerent misanthrope who stared vacantly into space for inexplicably long periods of time, his teaching of basic skills was great. Your experience?

 

[ElectricZombie]

concollective once bubbled...

Yeah, I got it, EZ, but the essence of my question was: why and how do you know that about PADI?

PADI standards and training policies are the main basis for the many criticisms they receive. These manuals and texts are readily available for review. The standards are low and the training is generally brief. One of the biggest problems with PADI is that the Instructors are not allowed to deviate from PADI material in any way. Additional skills or information that would actually make them decent divers is not allowed. (NAUI does allow this, I'm not sure about the others) The PADI ITC program allows people with zero diving skill to become Instructors...they in turn perpetuate complacency and poor skills.

As for my personal experiences, the LDS here was a PADI facility for a long time. I met the guy who owns the shop and teaches all the classes. This guy was clueless. I've got a guy that I OW certified last semester that can make this guy look like a drunken muppet underwater. I've had the chance to observe the product of his work when some of his students come to dive off the coast here. They were so bad and such a safety risk, the boat no longer allows them on board.

Could this just be 1 bad PADI Instructor? Maybe, but not likely. Based on their standards and the numerious PADI Instructors and divers that I have met, I would say that PADI is at fault.

As I said before, the other agencies also need work, but PADI is the biggest and worst offender.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Whirling Girl once bubbled...


Backward Finning: Thanks for being honest. But what do you mean, you've never had a situation come up that has 'required' backward finning? You're kidding, right? Right? Tell me you're kidding.

Haven't you ever wanted to back up? Just, simply, go backwards? I swear it drove me crazy not being able to do it for the last few months, especially when I could see all my buddies using it all the time.

Margaret

Well, maybe I'm doing it without realizing it, 'cause I have always been able to go where I needed to. To tell you the truth, I've never thought about it.

It's possible, (probable!), that PADI has become too big for it's own good, and a review of the way they teach, and their instructors is in order.

 

[chiara]

Whirling Girl once bubbled...
I took PADI openwater in January of this year, so I have recent experience with them.

Let me get this straight: you started diving in January, got as far as OW-certified and you know absolutely everything about scuba diving?

You have recent, but PLEASE LET ME SAY YOU HAVE VERY LIMITED EXPERIENCE WITH PADI.

And yes, I'm well aware I'm shouting, it was my purpose in the first place.