Six year old Snorkler killed by 13yo boater

[greg454]

"Allowing a 13 year old to operate a vessel unsupervised that would go fast enough to sink another vessel in a crash is just poor parenting."

----First: Car drivers kill far more people than boats captains, and we do allow 16 year olds to drive, often without adult supervision.

Second: Just like it's good to learn hunting while you're young, it's good to learn boating while you're young. Skills like that are hard to learn at an older age.

Third, did those snorkelers had a dive flag? My parents were told by a cop not to snorkel outside the bouys without a dive flag.


"Even worse is the State Legislature allows it."

---I live in Florida, it's a wonderful state because it's not overegulated and overtaxed like New York, Chicago, Boston, LA and San Francisco. And yet, thanks to tree-huggers, we have to drive our boats at no-wake speeds at the canals just to save the manatees (which by the way, have already been saved and are quite plentiful thank you very much).

So in conclusion, if people want to do snorkeling, let them do it by the beach or with a professional dive boat.

But if they go on their own and get in trouble, it's gonna be their own damn fault.

You want a life without risks? Stay at home and watch TV. But if you want adventure, you put up with the dangers. That's the only way.

Also, this anti-boating attitude is silly. Unless you plan to do only shore diving, you need a boat, and instead of criticizing the boating industry, we should be joining forces with them.

 

[H2Andy]

Car drivers kill far more people than boats captains, and we do allow 16 year olds to drive, often without adult supervision.

the boat driver in this case was 13. there is an enormous developmental
difference between your average 13 year old and your average 16 year old.

Just like it's good to learn hunting while you're young, it's good to learn boating while you're young.

yes, but would you send your 13 year old child alone into the woods with
a loaded rifle? i sure as heck will not allow a 13 year old to go out alone
on a boat.

did those snorkelers had a dive flag? My parents were told by a cop not to snorkel outside the bouys without a dive flag.

well, the kid apparently didn't see their boat until he hit the boat. a boat is
larger than a dive flag. i doubt having a dive flag in this scenario would have
changed much. i mean, the kid just slammed into their boat.

we have to drive our boats at no-wake speeds at the canals just to save the manatees (which by the way, have already been saved and are quite plentiful thank you very much).

sorry, manatee populations in Florida are decreasing. this is the third year in a row
too. there's only about 3000 of them to begin with ...

Also, this anti-boating attitude is silly

well, if boaters stopped getting loaded and running into other boats and people,
and if boaters were more educated about what a dive flag means, then maybe
we can stop talking about it.

not allowing 13 year olds to dive boats would also help a great deal

 

[Scubaguy62]

Boater education, IMHO, is as good as the audience being educated, and we have far too many hormone driven "macho" attitudes down here; these attitudes are not gender biased, so when I say "macho" I also include women boaters. Although not as much the typical offender, I have seen many women operating boats so wrecklessly that they rival any of their male counterparts.

Last Sunday I took my family to the beach, off 12th street in Pompano. I did a dive with my 16 yr old, and later snorkeled with my wife. In between my dive with my daughter and my snorkeling with my wife, I snorkeled with a buddy of mine. Every time we were buzzed by wave runners being rented from the same beach were we were diving. In one ocassion, I had the opportunity to admonish the renter to keep the required 300' distance in open water from any diver's down flag.

I believe that, as Jenny mentioned, we need to not only post signs at marinas, or urge the FWCC and/or the USCG to do the same, but we need to do massive faxes to all these places that rent boats and wave runners. Most of them are listed on the yellow pages, and chances are all of them have a fax.

Personally, I'm thinking about deploying my SMB along with my flag, in an abundance of caution.

Jenny, if you want, we can get together and make up a flyer to fax to these operators and urge them to advise their renters to stay clear of dive flags.

 

[RonFrank]

Jenny, if you want, we can get together and make up a flyer to fax to these operators and urge them to advise their renters to stay clear of dive flags.

I would suggest putting together a PDF image that can be printed, and emailing that. Fax machines have notoriously bad quality, only do B&W, can only be printed at 8x10 size. I would think that most people in business today have access to the internet.

A better long term solution would be to get whatever agency that regulates this in FL to get behind the project with weatherproof large signs posted.

However I would think that all the rental businesses have the customers sign a release that likely includes acknoledgement of the rules on the water. It's also highly likely that most people don't read this waiver, or the rules, and could care less.

 

[RonFrank]

Second: Just like it's good to learn hunting while you're young, it's good to learn boating while you're young. Skills like that are hard to learn at an older age.

I'd love to see some proof of that statement. There is a reason that insuring a teen to drive an auto costs more than insuring a 50 year old that has MUCH slower reflexes. That reason is that teens are quick, irrational, live in the moment, inexperienced drivers who have a higher accident rate than any other segment of the population dispite their reflexes. IOW's they lack good judgement.

Certainly you are not suggesting that driving a boat is more difficult to learn at the age of 18 vs. the age of 13.

---I live in Florida, it's a wonderful state because it's not overegulated and overtaxed like New York, Chicago, Boston, LA and San Francisco. And yet, thanks to tree-huggers, we have to drive our boats at no-wake speeds at the canals just to save the manatees (which by the way, have already been saved and are quite plentiful thank you very much).

Chicago, Boston, etc., are not states.

Manatees are hardly plentiful. So you think it's fine to put sea life in danger because you don't like going slow in canals? There is a TON of water in FL where you can go fast, in fact faster than any car is allowed to drive. Is that not enough?

So in conclusion, if people want to do snorkeling, let them do it by the beach or with a professional dive boat.

For someone who is preaching freedom, it sounds more like freedom for you to do what you want, and screw anyone elses freedoms.

But if they go on their own and get in trouble, it's gonna be their own damn fault.

So you would argue that if you are snorkeling with your six year old son with a dive flag up following the rules, the individual whom runs over your son, and slams into your boat is NOT at fault because boaters don't need to follow the rules as we all just live on the edge and must take responsibility for others illegal irresponsible actions?

You want a life without risks? Stay at home and watch TV. But if you want adventure, you put up with the dangers. That's the only way.

Also, this anti-boating attitude is silly. Unless you plan to do only shore diving, you need a boat, and instead of criticizing the boating industry, we should be joining forces with them.

We are all divers here. I've been boating for a good part of my life. I'm not anti-boating, I'm anti-moron. Freedom ends when it negatively impacts OTHERS freedoms, which is why we have laws.

 

[frogman_5]

----First: Car drivers kill far more people than boats captains...

Second: Just like it's good to learn hunting while you're young....

Third, did those snorkelers had a dive flag?....

So in conclusion, if people want to do snorkeling, let them do it by the beach or with a professional dive boat.

But if they go on their own and get in trouble, it's gonna be their own damn fault.

...But if you want adventure, you put up with the dangers. That's the only way....

Also, this anti-boating attitude is silly....

1st, There are more people driving in cars, more often and for longer distances so of course there are more accidents. Also, I would hardly characterize the average person behind the wheel of a boat as a "captain". That implies the have passed a test and have proven experience.

2nd, Yes, it is good to learn skills while you're young. But let's put the emphasis on LEARNING. Did your parents set you loose in the forest with a 12 gauge and box of ammo and say "good luck"?

3rd, Yes there was a dive flag.

So why is it your willing to put restrictions on snorkelers floating harmlessly on the water, but not on boaters that could do them harm? I see by your profile that you're not certified yet. I'm willing to wager once you start spending more time in the water than on it, and have had a few close calls of your own, you'll be singing a different tune.

Many of us are also boaters. How do you think we get to our favorite dive sites? Most of the close calls I've had have actually been while I'm on the boat, not off of it. Since the other boaters involved couldn't figure the way around a large 5 ton floating object, is it any wonder they have trouble with a dive flag?

Let's get back to whats really important here. A child lost his life because someone ran their boat in a reckless and irresponsible manner, breaking several laws in the process.

 

[Jason Ooi]

Condolences to the family...

 

[deeper thoughts]

Is his post legit or a troll?

 

[Missdirected]

I would suggest putting together a PDF image that can be printed, and emailing that. Fax machines have notoriously bad quality, only do B&W, can only be printed at 8x10 size. I would think that most people in business today have access to the internet.

A better long term solution would be to get whatever agency that regulates this in FL to get behind the project with weatherproof large signs posted.

However I would think that all the rental businesses have the customers sign a release that likely includes acknoledgement of the rules on the water. It's also highly likely that most people don't read this waiver, or the rules, and could care less.

Ron I agree. Would agree.

Please note that hanging a fax is not going to work IMO. It would have to be something weatherproof. Further, my experience has been that dock workers are not going to take the time to go and hang something like that themselves.

The other route Ron suggested seems a much better idea.

Yes, you do sign waivers but how often are they read, really? Something more in the way of a sign, short and to the point is more likely to be read. Something that causes people, like the manatee sign, to say "awe" or feel they have learned something simple but important. It's marketing essentially.

 

[Azotino]

Condolences to the family........