Pony, Octo, or both?

[MrTAT]

I am an advanced open water diver with over 100 dives. I practice safe diving skills every time I hit the water. There is no need to push the limits in MY mind to enjoy this awesome sport. However there are situations that can arise that are completely out of your control. If for whatever reason I had a catastrophic failure with my first and second stage or heaven forbid ran out of air due to a malfunctioning computer I would pay a million dollars for a few more breathes of air.
That's why I have a pony bottle. Having a pony bottle doesn't give me the right to be careless. It allows me to be more relaxed and do what I can to make sure I get back to the surface safely to dive another day not to mention be with my family!!

I respect all of the opinions and beliefs posted here. Bottom line for me.... I will not dive without one... PERIOD.

 

[knowone]

Waiting for the water to warm before the first OW dive, I have some concerns about equipment to buy. Mainly, I am thinking about the secondary air.

For safety's sake, even though I plan on diving with a buddy, always, I am thinking of getting a pony and an octo.

I can't imagine there are as many people who put safety as prominent in decision making as I do...I am anal about it.

So, I researched and found horror stories about a panicked OOA diver causing all kinds of problems when grabbing an octo, and others where a pony failed., But, what else can you do? I read about regs freezing, which if it froze through coldness of the water, chances are the other devices are going to freeze as well.

So, i was thinking to improve my risk management, I would do both. What are your thougths? Is that overkill?

Some devices should freeze, or at least shrink a bit. Read post 33 and remember to fill your bottle. Best wishes.

 

[ams511]

If you can't monitor your gas supply and need a spare air to get to your buddy you shouldn't be diving at 120' period.

Your post is very rude. What if he had an equipment failure?

 

[Dr Wu]

Your post is very rude. What if he had an equipment failure?

In the event of an equipment failure he should use his budy's octo. If his buddy skills are so poor that he requires a Spare Air to accomplish that he must seriously look at improving his dive planning and techniques.

The Spare Air is irrelevant to proper buddy work and in fact a serious hindrance.

 

[TechBlue]

Your post is very rude. What if he had an equipment failure?

The truth is often percieved as being rude, a spare air gives a false sense of security and the whole purpose of buddy or team diving is that in the event of equipment failure you can support each other. At 120 feet you will get about 3 breathes out of a spare air.

 

[scarefaceDM]

I Finally, I can eventually use the 19 bottle for a deco bottle if/when I get into deco diving.

I have an issue with that last statement....

A 19 cub is not used for DECO diving. It is way too small. Like a spare AIR is for diving to 120 feet..it is simply not done. The first thing your instructor will tell you is..get a bigger deco bottle and sling that. That is a minor tip of the iceberg...

Proper deco diving is not done with a 19. Since deco diving is in a TEAM environment, you have to consider your buddy when planning deco procedures, let alone any proper bailout etc etc etc...Proper deco diving is not done on the internet nor is it done with a spare air or a 19 cub...or a single 80. avoid thinking that way and you will have safer dives in the end.

You are better off getting yourself a 40 DIN. That way if you are ready to go towards bigger deeper dives that involve deco procedures...you will have a minor part of the gear spectrum. And you can even resell that 40- if you needed to.

So before you even think of deco procedures...why not dive your ass off with the gear you have and have fun safe dives and dive with in your limits.

 

[TSandM]

Since pony bottles are anti-DIR and anti-GUE, responses from them will be negative.

I would like to refer to my original post in this thread, where I said I don't blame anybody who has to dive with unknown buddies for wanting to carry their own redundancy.

As I said at the beginning . . . having an alternate gas supply is a very reasonable precaution for any significant diving (say, deeper than 30 feet). You can view your buddy's gas as that alternate, if you can depend upon having that buddy at a reachable distance (and I can tell you from personal experience that you can almost 100% guarantee that yourself, although it may ruin your own dive). Or you can provide your own alternate gas supply, in the form of a completely redundant system. Tech divers do that with doubles, and recreational divers generally do it by carrying an auxiliary, or "pony" bottle.

If you are going to provide your own redundancy, you need to make sure the size of the gas supply you take with you is sufficient to allow a NORMAL ascent from the deepest portion of your dive (this includes any stops you would usually do). You should know how to calculate this. In addition, the gas in the auxiliary supply is never to be considered as part of the available gas for the dive. It is an emergency device only. You are carrying it for the fairly unlikely event that your primary supply completely fails, and in warm water, about the only way that is going to happen is a blocked dip tube. (In cold water, redundancy becomes more important, because of freeflows.)

The DIR system relies on extensive training of divers to maintain situational awareness, and commitment to team. It works, and it works well. With the skills you learn within such a system, you can stick to almost anybody pretty much like glue (unless they can seriously outswim you and do) but if your buddy is not similarly inclined, you may spend your entire dive keeping an eye on him, and not seeing much (been there, did that). For this reason, I don't blame people who travel and dive with random buddies for deciding to solve their own problems.

 

[TechBlue]

A redundant air supply which equates to a pony bottle was a sytem that was developed without a lot of thought and has also been promoted by like minded divers, dive shops and boat operators. They have caused stupid fatalities to supposedly experienced divers because they jumped into the water breathing of the wrong reg a pony is just such a bad convoluted system that people choose to promote and defend and I do not understand why. It affects your balance and trim (although it does look really cool) it adds more hoses and clutter to your configuration. On the most part the gas supply is minimal to your needs and useless to a buddy or team member. Think outside the box and try and work with a proven system that does work, gives you a real advantage and will grow with you as you progress or at the very least provide you with a flexible redundant air supply.

 

[Dr Wu]

A redundant air supply which equates to a pony bottle was a sytem that was developed without a lot of thought and has also been promoted by like minded divers, dive shops and boat operators. They have caused stupid fatalities to supposedly experienced divers because they jumped into the water breathing of the wrong reg a pony is just such a bad convoluted system that people choose to promote and defend and I do not understand why. It affects your balance and trim (although it does look really cool) it adds more hoses and clutter to your configuration. On the most part the gas supply is minimal to your needs and useless to a buddy or team member. Think outside the box and try and work with a proven system that does work, gives you a real advantage and will grow with you as you progress or at the very least provide you with a flexible redundant air supply.

I have tried the same logic before only to be told by people with less than 50 dives I was wrong on every point.

Good luck.

 

[Crush]

I have an issue with that last statement....

A 19 cub is not used for DECO diving. It is way too small. Like a spare AIR is for diving to 120 feet..it is simply not done. The first thing your instructor will tell you is..get a bigger deco bottle and sling that. That is a minor tip of the iceberg...

scarefaceDM, that you for the reply. Your tact is how I recall it from http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5149015-post53.html .

1. I recently saw two cave divers breathing 19 cu ft tanks filled with nitrox during their stops while ascending. Were they not deco diving? Since I clearly stated that I was not trained in/did not do deco diving, a more restrained, helpful response would have been appropriate;

So before you even think of deco procedures...why not dive your ass off with the gear you have and have fun safe dives and dive with in your limits.

2. Thanks, scarefaceDM, but I will keep my own counsel and set my own training priorities.