Pony, Octo, or both?

[Graeme Tolton]

You were taught about ponies in OW?? Seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse. If the shop is teaching you that you need a pony, it is most likely driven by the fact that they are selling them. Anything less than 30cf is a waste of money. On top of the tank ($150ish), you need some way of attaching it to yourself (starting around $50, up), you need a 1st and second stage with spg ($400+). You are already talking about $600 for something that is not necessary at this point when you haven't logged dive #1. I didn't start carrying a redundant air source until I started going deeper than 120' of water that is usually at the most 45F. At this point, you should be worried about learning the skills being taught in your OW class. Without the proper skills, no equipment will save you when the $hit hits the fan.

 

[Crush]

senseiern,

If you follow SB for a while you can almost predict what certain regulars are going to post, and why.

This forum has several certified cave divers, many of whom practice DIR/GUE diving. These schools believe in absolute standardization - you will never find them agreeing with anything which is not DIR/GUE. Since pony bottles are anti-DIR and anti-GUE, responses from them will be negative. You will also see than many of them are unable to conceive of any situation where DIR/GUE doesn't have all the answers. DIR and GUE are like the Marines - they leave no one behind. If you are one of them, they are the best dive buddies you could hope for - they follow the rules, they get things done, they know what to do and where to be, and they don't panic. Diving with a DIR/GUE buddy is probably the best safety insurance you could have.

On the other hand, I am neither DUI nor GUE. I travel to distant dive sites when I squeeze in a few extra personal days to dive when I work. I end up with insta-buddies who are not DIR/GUE. Many of them are jokers, drinking between dives, and I can't trust my life to them. In such cases, I believe that a pony bottle is entirely justified because, unless I am a mind-reader, I might unknowingly end up diving solo.

Summary: I believe that diving an octo and a pony is a reasonable thing to do, especially if your dive buddies might not be reliable. Also, take a look at who is posting and how they were trained - this will likely explain why they think what they think.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If after the certification class you continue to feel "anal" about safety and you want to get a pony bottle, do so! Diving is supposed to be fun and if not having a pony bottle and possibly reliying on someone who is as similarly inexperienced as yourself makes you feel uncomfortable, then get a pony bottle!

When I taught both my young sons to scuba dive, I did it with a pony bottle, I make them wear pony bottles on all dives so that they are very familiar with it. We back mount the pony bottle, have no gage or hose to read the pressure underwater and leave the valve open, The pony bottle regulator has a single hose and the second stage is bungies around the neck. To use a pony bottle, the boys know to reach 2 inches below their neck, stick the reg in their mouth, breath and THEN let me know there is a problem. This configuration provides zero meaningful additional task loading and 100% of the additional tasks are confined to predive set-up which is simpler than setting up the primary tank and regulator. Deploying a pony bottle regulator is identical to deploying an octopus.

As for carrying an octopus AND a pony bottle, I opt to NOT use a typical octopus, I feel that carrying and managing 3 separate second stages is unnecessary, may lead to confusion and the added complexity and additional failure point reduces your safety in most situations. Also, I would recommend that the pony bottle second stage be DIFFERENT than the primary reg, so that the opportunity for confusion of the two is reduced (someone else recommended getting the same regs).

Also, if you are looking for advice about HOW to use a pony bottle, you might want to listen to the people who do use pony bottles rather than the people who choose not to use them.

 

[RJP]

but how does slinging another tank on your back as a back up air source not make a diver safer?

Same way having a spare tire or an extra can of gas in the trunk makes you a safer diver... which is to to say "not at all."

And I would think that diving like most other somewhat dangerous sports is made much safer when a person feels safe and is much less likely to panic in a given situation?

Having a false sense of security does not make you safer; it just make you FEEL safer.

 

[senseiern]

I know but I am planning on diving alot once I get my OW. Not so I can say I have a lot of dives, but because I know I love this stuff. What my plan is, is to buy about $500 worth of gear per month. That is what I budgeted.

Reg, hoses, wet suit, BC, gauges. I don't plan on getting fancy stuff, just the stuff I need to have a safe dive. Once I get a set, I do not plan on getting more, except to replace worn out stuff. Maybe a couple suits for different conditions, but that is it. Most of my dives will be 45' or less, and maybe 60', but only deeper to get certs and to work those skills.

 

[senseiern]

Graeme, I rread about them in the book aPADI gave me prior to my pool work. They mentioned it, and I read up on a lot of stuff. I read the book cover to cover, answered all the questions and reviewed to make sure I understood everything in the book. I read about pony tanks on here, and read more about them.

I am getting in the pool Saturday in Towson for a refresher course because next Saturday and Sunday, I will be doing my OW certs. Sometime in the next week after, I will be diving after work with my buddy, and within a couple weeks we are planning on going to the Keys. In June, I plan on diving every weekend and by July, I want to do some ocean diving in the Atlantic...weather permitting.

I plan on diving at Hyde's Park at least twice a month and expand from there. I am beyond excited.

 

[Crush]

My personal preference is, rather than mounting a 13 cubic foot pony on my single, to sling a 19 cubic foot tank. Slinging harnesses can be made as per DIR-diver.com - Stagebottle rigging . A 19 cubic foot tank gives you a rock bottom depth of about 130 feet, which is secure enough for me.

 

[Crush]

You were taught about ponies in OW?? Seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse. ...Without the proper skills, no equipment will save you when the $hit hits the fan.

I agree with Graeme Tolton here - you might want to consider practicing proper buoyancy, etc., and leave redundant air supply to you course instructors until such time as you feel yourself an accomplished diver. Also, please let me know when that is - I have been diving as much as circumstances allow for two years and, the more I dive, it seems the less I know.

 

[TechBlue]

I dive with a great bunch of buddies so I look at how can a get to my buddy if I need to. Spare Air starts to look good. Not to surface but to just to get to my buddy (even if around 120ft).

If you can't monitor your gas supply and need a spare air to get to your buddy you shouldn't be diving at 120' period.

 

[OldNSalty]

Senseiern, Mpetryk gave you some good advice. A 13 or 19 should be fine for the depth you are looking at. Also, nothing wrong with having both a pony and an octo. I have an AIR 2 and I use a pony because if I am diving locally there is a good chance I am by myself. On the rare occasions that I travel, I will probably be forced into a group and so I just leave the pony and I have an octo with me.
One more thing-just to be clear, don’t dive solo with or without a pony at this point in your diving life.