Pony, Octo, or both?

[Crush]

For the record I have only very minor criticisms of the DIR system. Mostly from what I see is inconsistancies in the book. I am sure these are probably cleared up in class. As you quoted me I said JJ's book makes perfect sense.

To senseiern: NAUI recommends the use of a pony bottle or Y-valve for deep dives. I suspect that PADI does as well, but I haven't been able to verify this. The anti-pony sentiments are coming primarily from DIR/GUE divers. Perhaps if some are for, and some are against: (1) either diving with, or without a pony, is acceptable; and (2) you are entitled to make your own informed decision without being criticized for it! My opinion is that most who who write "there is no place for x in diving" do not have enough life experience to realize that there are many paths to the same end.

To all others: FWIW, excerpts from an email exchange between me and another diver:

me: For a DIR person, you are OK. So are TSandM, Cave Diver, FireinmyBones,.... Damn, there are quite a few of you who are OK... Another wonderful theory, shot to hell...

other diver: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I guess is what I am saying. Don't let arrogant people put you off learning about a system that has some seriously good stuff in it.

me: Hey, if I let the arrogant ones put me off it, I wouldn't have gone to a long hose, necklace for the octo, spring straps, and a spare mask in my pocket. Small steps, I know, but I take what works for me at my particular stage.

Finally, I'd like to leave you all with a saying that, if St. Francis were a scuba diver, I think he would have said:

Take every opportunity to spread the message about good scuba diving. If absolutely necessary, use words.
​

Have some wonderful diving, folks!

 

[Dr Wu]

Dr Wu....thanks for correcting my spelling. The very next time I think to post at 1:00am after a 24hr shift I'll remember to run spell check. I do understand that's the most important issue to you....see you on the bottom

Stick to "the next time" after your next shift.

Adding "The Very next time" is redundant.

As are pony bottles.

Redundant and also very redundant.

Jambo,

Wu

 

[Graeme Tolton]

Stick to "the next time" after your next shift.

Adding "The Very next time" is redundant.

As are pony bottles.

Redundant and also very redundant.

Jambo,

Wu

That was a waste of valuable letters...

The fact remains that not all diving takes place in warm water where redundancy is not necessary... Where I dive, redundancy is standard... Take a hike troll.

 

[Crush]

That was a waste of valuable letters...

The fact remains that not all diving takes place in warm water where redundancy is not necessary... Where I dive, redundancy is standard... Take a hike troll.

Graeme, I agree with you. However, I personally don't believe that Dr. Wu is trolling - I think that he ardently believes what he posts, and he wishes to lead us all to our senses.

 

[elan]

Stick to "the next time" after your next shift.

Adding "The Very next time" is redundant.

As are pony bottles.

Redundant and also very redundant.

Jambo,

Wu

If I remember my lessons of English well in this particular case "the very" means "the one and the only" so it is not, in fact, redundant it just has a different meaning

 

[elan]

To senseiern: NAUI recommends the use of a pony bottle or Y-valve for deep dives. I suspect that PADI does as well, but I haven't been able to verify this. The anti-pony sentiments are coming primarily from DIR/GUE divers. Perhaps if some are for, and some are against: (1) either diving with, or without a pony, is acceptable; and (2) you are entitled to make your own informed decision without being criticized for it! My opinion is that most who who write "there is no place for x in diving" do not have enough life experience to realize that there are many paths to the same end

mpetryk, the pony is absolutely acceptable as the the way of having a redundant source. It is IMHO just a long (and not optimal) way to get the same result you can get with double tanks. And it is not cost effective, At least for our cold waters the pony makes no sense if you compare it to doubles. You pay for the pony as for a regular tank, you have to buy an extra regulator. So at the end you save your money on the manifold and the bands but you do not get the flexibility and streamlining you get with the double tanks. It is like taking a warm water oriented gear and fixing it with extra stuff that dangles and gets in the way.

I went through back mounted pony tank, slung pony tank ad doubles. If I had to do it from the start I would simply get double tanks from the very beginning for our cold waters. When I switched to the doubles my first impression was "WOW why they f.. did I waste time with the pony" and my dry weight off the double rig was the same as the dry weight of my single rig with 30cuf pony.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

mpetryk, the pony is absolutely acceptable as the the way of having a redundant source. It is IMHO just a long (and not optimal) way to get the same result you can get with double tanks. And it is not cost effective, At least for our cold waters the pony makes no sense if you compare it to doubles. You pay for the pony as for a regular tank, you have to buy an extra regulator. So at the end you save your money on the manifold and the bands but you do not get the flexibility and streamlining you get with the double tanks. It is like taking a warm water oriented gear and fixing it with extra stuff that dangles and gets in the way.

I vent through back mounted pony tank, slung pony tank ad doubles. If I had to do it from the start I would simply get double tanks from the very start in our cold waters. When I switched to the doubles my first impression was "WOW why they f.. did I waste time with the pony" and my dry weight off the double rig was the same as the dry weight of my single rig with 30cuf pony.

Hijack starts here...
Hey serge. May be diving Niagara II next sunday. Let me know if you are interested.
Also, BBP wed night, for a long, deep dive.
End of Hijack.

 

[elan]

Hijack starts here...
Hey serge. May be diving Niagara II next sunday. Let me know if you are interested.
Also, BBP wed night, for a long, deep dive.
End of Hijack.

Sunday is out of question as we have relatives coming from Ottawa for the weekend, the BBP is a good option I might be able to do it if I do not get anything serious on Wednesday, what time do you plan to meet there ?

 

[Crush]

mpetryk, the pony is absolutely acceptable as the the way of having a redundant source. It is IMHO just a long (and not optimal) way to get the same result you can get with double tanks. And it is not cost effective, At least for our cold waters the pony makes no sense if you compare it to doubles. You pay for the pony as for a regular tank, you have to buy an extra regulator. So at the end you save your money on the manifold and the bands but you do not get the flexibility and streamlining you get with the double tanks. It is like taking a warm water oriented gear and fixing it with extra stuff that dangles and gets in the way.

I vent through back mounted pony tank, slung pony tank ad doubles. If I had to do it from the start I would simply get double tanks from the very start in our cold waters. When I switched to the doubles my first impression was "WOW why they f.. did I waste time with the pony" and my dry weight off the double rig was the same as the dry weight of my single rig with 30cuf pony.

I can't argue with your logic or with your experience. Here is mine:

I fly to at least half of my dives. I fly with my pony, but I don't own any larger tanks. I rent tanks either locally (when diving locally), or at my dive destination (if flying to a dive). I end up renting an AL 80 since that is what everyone rents. Buying and diving one pony plus rentals for me is very much cheaper than buying doubles, let alone flying with them, and I only have to pay for a single vis and (every five years) hydro.

Again, I am not saying that you are wrong. However, at this point in my life and given my land-locked location and impact it has on my diving frequency, doubles are not right for me right now. Heck, even owning singles doesn't make sense. If I did own singles, it would be HP steel 120s (have any for sale?) and I can't imagine flying with them.

 

[Puffer Fish]

mpetryk, the pony is absolutely acceptable as the the way of having a redundant source. It is IMHO just a long (and not optimal) way to get the same result you can get with double tanks. And it is not cost effective, At least for our cold waters the pony makes no sense if you compare it to doubles. You pay for the pony as for a regular tank, you have to buy an extra regulator. So at the end you save your money on the manifold and the bands but you do not get the flexibility and streamlining you get with the double tanks. It is like taking a warm water oriented gear and fixing it with extra stuff that dangles and gets in the way.

I went through back mounted pony tank, slung pony tank ad doubles. If I had to do it from the start I would simply get double tanks from the very beginning for our cold waters. When I switched to the doubles my first impression was "WOW why they f.. did I waste time with the pony" and my dry weight off the double rig was the same as the dry weight of my single rig with 30cuf pony.

Hold on a minute...


A set of Al80's weigh (without valves and gas) around 63 lbs.... versus say a Faber 133 with a 30 cf aluminum at around 53 lbs. Add the hardware, and weight for buoyancy differences, and you are around 18 lbs heavier with doubles.

But you have a total of 154 cubic ft of gas, while with the single tank/pony, you have 163... go to the 149, and the rig still weighs less, and now you have 179 cubic feet.

I've weighed a 133 with two 30's and it still weighs less than a set of Aluminum doubles.

A set of HP 100's is around the same weight as the Al 80, but at least you get 200 cf of gas for the extra weight.

If you were using a large, low pressure single tank, you could get the weight to be equal, not more.

Regarding single versus double resistance in the water, the single is better, just not a lot different.

PS. Have several thousand dives on doubles, and they have there place, but the smaller size and lower weight makes using a single with a pony better option for me these days.