Pony, Octo, or both?

[TSandM]

No, because he is talking out his butt. That is the problem with the DIR system. If you read JJ's book it makes perfect sense but when you listen to some of them (not all) they spout off nonsense. It is like once they pass fundies they became the judge and jury of all things scuba.

Excuse me, ams511, but TechBlue is not DIR, so please do not project your criticisms of him onto the DIR system.

DIR doesn't use ponies, because for simple dives, we use a reliable buddy (and we undergo intensive training to become that reliable buddy -- situational awareness and readiness to respond appropriately are probably the most critical thing that's evaluated in DIR classes). And for deep or complex dives, we use doubles for redundancy, as WELL as a reliable team. So DIR has no views on where a pony bottle ought to be mounted, whether it should have a gauge, or whether you should have a secondary regulator off your primary first stage, because those questions aren't relevant within the system.

 

[deepwater]

I personally don't know Dr. Wu but from a psycological perseption, I think he may have been kicked by a pony, when he was a baby diver, and now he hates them.......Be a big boy and get on the pony ride.

 

[ams511]

Excuse me, ams511, but TechBlue is not DIR, so please do not project your criticisms of him onto the DIR system.

DIR doesn't use ponies, because for simple dives, we use a reliable buddy (and we undergo intensive training to become that reliable buddy -- situational awareness and readiness to respond appropriately are probably the most critical thing that's evaluated in DIR classes). And for deep or complex dives, we use doubles for redundancy, as WELL as a reliable team. So DIR has no views on where a pony bottle ought to be mounted, whether it should have a gauge, or whether you should have a secondary regulator off your primary first stage, because those questions aren't relevant within the system.

For the record I have only very minor criticisms of the DIR system. Mostly from what I see is inconsistancies in the book. I am sure these are probably cleared up in class. As you quoted me I said JJ's book makes perfect sense.

Now if we change the word "pony" to "stage", then DIR has a something to say about placement, gauges, etc. Does it not?

My words were not meant to be offensive, for the record I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[Kern]

For the record I have only very minor criticisms of the DIR system. Mostly from what I see is inconsistancies in the book. I am sure these are probably cleared up in class. As you quoted me I said JJ's book makes perfect sense.

Now if we change the word "pony" to "stage", then DIR has a something to say about placement, gauges, etc. Does it not?

My words were not meant to be offensive, for the record I always enjoy reading your posts.

You could call it anything really. But I can't see a DIR proponent using a bottom stage, or a deco stage for anything but the primary dive plan. That being to extend the BT or accelerate the deco.

If you're suggesting that they would be happy to take a contingency bottle, wether its called a stage or a pony, that they'd then forget about unless something went wrong on the dive & they wanted it for redundancy, I think you'd be wrong.

 

[TSandM]

In the DIR system, we use stages, and they are slung on the left, and they have a single regulator and an SPG on a 6" hose. They are not a contingency bottle -- they are part of the dive plan, and there is a system of calculations to allow the use of the stage with appropriate adjustments of reserve gas in the doubles, so that one is always carrying that last "third" on one's back. Stages are not expected to be shared under any circumstances.

 

[Dr Wu]

I personally don't know Dr. Wu but from a psycological perseption, I think he may have been kicked by a pony, when he was a baby diver, and now he hates them.......Be a big boy and get on the pony ride.

You misspelled "Psychological" and "Perception".

No thought from you beyond that is worth consideration.

Go be stupid somewhere else?

Have a nice day!

 

[halocline]

Waiting for the water to warm before the first OW dive, I have some concerns about equipment to buy. Mainly, I am thinking about the secondary air.

For safety's sake, even though I plan on diving with a buddy, always, I am thinking of getting a pony and an octo.

I can't imagine there are as many people who put safety as prominent in decision making as I do...I am anal about it.

So, I researched and found horror stories about a panicked OOA diver causing all kinds of problems when grabbing an octo, and others where a pony failed., But, what else can you do? I read about regs freezing, which if it froze through coldness of the water, chances are the other devices are going to freeze as well.

So, i was thinking to improve my risk management, I would do both. What are your thougths? Is that overkill?

I can't believe I'm biting on this thread, and I imagine the usual mud-slinging has occurred. Anyhow, if I read your post correctly, you are still in the OW certification process? In that case, forget about a pony and learn to dive like everyone else should....with a good, reliable buddy and by being one yourself. It doesn't matter if a whole legion of experienced divers recommend using a pony, as a new diver you should get the basic concepts of the buddy system down. There are all sorts of practices that make diving safer; not running out of air is only one of them. Most importantly, if you want to be as safe a diver as is possible, you need to come to the firm belief that diver behavior, not equipment, is the determining factor in safety.

It's no coincidence that highly technical approaches to diving still prioritize team effort over equipment choices for safety.

It's understandable that new divers are especially concerned about running out of air. Once you get some experience, you'll probably realize that there are other more likely scenarios that can be dangerous, and that running out of air in a recreational setting is almost entirely a factor of poor diver judgement, not equipment failure.

 

[senseiern]

I got my OW last weekend. I am still wanting to know opinions on this, other than "wait". Of course I am going to wait until I am ready for it. But, the knowledge now will help in decision making when the time comes.

 

[halocline]

Dr. Wu's questionable communication style aside, his basic viewpoint that pony tanks are not needed in recreational settings has some merit IMO. This does not mean that they are inherently dangerous, but if a new diver is thinking that he/she will increase safety margins by using one, I think that's a mistake. Over the long run, safe diving is achieved by good training and good judgement on the part of the diver. Above all this means being a responsible buddy and diving with one.

Solo divers face all sorts of additional safety challenges, and pony tanks are probably more suited to their needs. However, any diver should realize that plenty of diving accidents/injuries occur with gas in the tank.

I have occasionally used a pony (slung 13cft) in fairly deep OW settings as a convenience for allowing me a more leisurely trip to the surface in the event of a reg failure, tank o-ring blow out, or another diver unexpectedly needing air in my vicinity. But I don't consider it an additional safety margin.

 

[deepwater]

Dr Wu....thanks for correcting my spelling. The very next time I think to post at 1:00am after a 24hr shift I'll remember to run spell check. I do understand that's the most important issue to you....see you on the bottom