Question Good second stage for use as octo

[Divin'Papaw]

I fully agree with the OP. I've never understood the logic of putting a crap 2nd stage octo/alternate with a top-end primary. When it hits the fan and breathing increases dramatically, that is when you REALLY want the better 2nd stages!

I’m a believer in using the same 2nd stage on my alternate as I do on my primary. A high-end, fully adjustable 2nd stage. I dive a long hose configuration so that alternate 2nd stage is going to be mine if I need to share air with somebody. I want it to be just as good as my primary. Also, a fully adjustable 2nd stage allows me to "turn down" the octo/alternative and "turn up" the primary. If deployed, the octo/alternate can then be "turned up" easily by the diver breathing it.

I have three primary regulator sets that I alternate between. AL Legend Elite/LX (one 2nd stage is a newer Elite and one is an older LX), Deep 6 Expedition "Signature" Series, and Dive Rite XT1 with 2 XT4 2nd stages. I have two top end 2nd stages on all three sets.

 

[Scared Silly]

Hmm, there is another thread about using an octo as primary? That is something I would never do.

Why? think about it. When does one use a backup regulator? When Davy Jones comes a calling. While it may rarely happen in my experience one wants a backup that is every bit as good as their primary. For over a decade I have given the following analogy

Octo/inflator == run flat tire
cheap octo == mini spare tire
std primary reg == full spare tire

I can be 30-40 miles in on dirt roads with another 30-40 before one finds a gas station. I'll take a full spare tire.

I can be 30-40 meters under the water with another 30-40 before one finds the boat. I'll take a full backup regulator.

I will also note I do a five tire rotation. That way all of my tires get used. Which is not unlike using my backup as my primary. Nothing worse than needing a spare and finding that it does not work.

 

[Nemrod]

Not all so called "octopus" regulators are substandard. There are many that are the same regulator as the primary, just with a yellow cover. The yellow cover in no way reduces the performance other than for non-adjustable types it is customary to set them a little stiffer on cracking effort.

Get a C370 since you do not like the G260. It does not need to be yellow, if you want some yellow on it get a yellow hose and mouthpiece.

The G200 was an unbalanced regulator and not the equal of a G250/G260, which are among the very best ever made in all around performance (which includes durability, reliability, simplicity, longevity, toughness).

Switch to long hose donate, most, well, many on this board do not use a conventional "octopus" but prefer two identical second stages. They donate the longer hose (40/60/72 inches hoses) primary (the one they are breathing on) and then upon donating the primary to the OOA diver switch to the necklaced secondary (typically a 20 to 24 inches hose). Neither are yellow.

 

[Nemrod]

A second post not to confuse my first. I currently am using a G250 (40 inches hose) on a Mark 11 with a DGX BCI (combo) for my tropical adventure regulator set. The BCI is completely adequate for me to get to the surface if I have to donate my primary. Bonaire as an example and similar resort diving, we are just going to the surface. But, I guess it was nearly five years ago now, drift diving the deep ledge (100+ feet) in Jupiter, strong current, I had a failure (that is what I call it when I cannot get air out of my primary) which caused all sorts of mayhem. But when I finally got myself sorted out the group I was diving with had left me behind. I had gone into deco (and my computer then quit) and I needed or at least I wanted to catch back up. I had switched to my Oceanic pancake "octopus" and immediately it was evident that in my already stressed state, I was simply not getting enough air to satisfy my demand to close on my buddies. At least that is what it felt like. Anyways, for that type of diving two equal second stages are needed. And when I am solo diving, the regulator that is on my slung pony is every bit as good as my primary gas regulator.

 

[rsingler]

For a sturdy reg that will breathe well when you need it, that doesn't have the finesse of the D400, but does have adjustable cracking effort and Venturi controls to detune for giant stride, I don't think there's a better value than the Deep6 Excursion (US$120). The case can take a beating, hanging off your bcd. It tunes very light. Service kits are sold to the end user and are very inexpensive.
Otherwise, I'd concur with the S270, or better, the C370, albeit for more $$.

 

[LI-er]

Dacor Viper is the obvious choice. No longer made but available used.

It's cheap, reliable, breathes ok, and most importantly the vent is on the side, it doesn't have a top or a bottom. So not only is it easy to bungee under the chin but in an OOA emergency if you're going to donate that one, you can just hand it over without twisting it to the correct orientation.

 

[rsingler]

Dacor Viper is the obvious choice. No longer made but available used.

It's cheap, reliable, breathes ok, and most importantly the vent is on the side, it doesn't have a top or a bottom. So not only is it easy to bungee under the chin but in an OOA emergency if you're going to donate that one, you can just hand it over without twisting it to the correct orientation.

In that case, the Mares SXS fits the bill. And for an octo, it's been tested to 200'!!
Same symmetrical side exhaust that can be handed off "upside down". Doesn't matter. It's a well built reg, but the mechanism isn't much different than the OP's R195, which he didn't care for.
Actually, both can be tuned to breathe quite well. But the unbalanced mechanism doesn't hold it for long, if you don't DIY.

 

[eho]

Thanks for all the info and discussion. Seems like for immediate need (wife’s octo) will go with a C370. And probably sometime soon lose my bias against the G series and use a G260 on my pony bottle. (It’s time to upgrade).

And also agree that I wouldn’t use another D400 for octo because every part is precious for that reg.

Thanks again.

 

[eho]

P.S. I appreciate the suggestions on the other regs, a lot of them sound pretty good, and there's something comforting about "classic" and "bulletproof". Hey, I dive a really old model reg. We dove the Mk.15 until only one person in the world had parts and had to buy new first stages.

This is my favorite forum on SB.

 

[eho]

A second post not to confuse my first. I currently am using a G250 (40 inches hose) on a Mark 11 with a DGX BCI (combo) for my tropical adventure regulator set. The BCI is completely adequate for me to get to the surface if I have to donate my primary. Bonaire as an example and similar resort diving, we are just going to the surface. But, I guess it was nearly five years ago now, drift diving the deep ledge (100+ feet) in Jupiter, strong current, I had a failure (that is what I call it when I cannot get air out of my primary) which caused all sorts of mayhem. But when I finally got myself sorted out the group I was diving with had left me behind. I had gone into deco (and my computer then quit) and I needed or at least I wanted to catch back up. I had switched to my Oceanic pancake "octopus" and immediately it was evident that in my already stressed state, I was simply not getting enough air to satisfy my demand to close on my buddies. At least that is what it felt like. Anyways, for that type of diving two equal second stages are needed. And when I am solo diving, the regulator that is on my slung pony is every bit as good as my primary gas regulator.

My first octo (on the Mk.15/D400 setup) was an Oceanic pancake. I thank the stars no one ever had to use that reg when it was in my setup. It barely served its primary function (deliver air) and did a poor job at that.