Octo for mk17?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

+1 for a second G260.

Even though an Octo regulator is usually for the “other” idiot who cannot manage their gas supply as a “Travel Diver” two high quality regs makes more sense then one. If the primary reg fails on a trip, which is exactly where they fail, never at home, you have a second quality reg to use instead of an under performing cheap octo.
 
You know, even with the pancakes and Air 2 type regulator combos, all of them supply more than enough performance to get a buddy team to the surface in open water diving. If we start into tech diving with deco and overhead then that is a different game but an open water dive is going to the surface and straight away with few scenarios where that is not possible.

So now I will refute myself, I did get stressed out with a pancake regulator (very similar to what several of my often buddies use), it simply did not satisfy demand and it is a long story after which resulted in multiple antibiotic courses, big needles and not happy doctors. The regulator, whatever it is, must be capable of sustaining a diver or divers under stress and load until successful termination of the dive.
 
I agree with pressurehead that weight does not really matter. Neither in nor out the water, not even concerning cabin baggage allowance. There is not much difference.

Beside of that, while some are using strong words like "stupid idea" and "nothing else" I'm missing the reasoning behind some statements and can not really follow on some of the reasons stated.
-) the necklace/long hose reason: an octo is there for emergencies, to be able to end a dive - does it really matter much breathing from e.g. a R195 vs. G260 for a few minutes?
-) the save a dive/Service kit reason: don't know how good the OPs technical knowledge is. For me it would not be a real difference, I can neither Service nor repair a regulator, beside of changing a mouth piece.
-) the one reg fails on a trip, use the other Main reg-reason: is it diving with only one reg, without an octo then?

Reasons I could think of:
Tec diving: going deeper or doing long deco stops - breathing quality does matter then - not asked for in this thread.
Cold water diving: not asked for here
Diving the same regs in different set ups: eg having a second 1st stage to go sidemount - not asked for here and I assume most would have different regs for this scenario 2 sets for sm, one for bm
Going against a current: maybe there is a difference in breathing between a G260 and a R195 when going against a strong current longer than one or two minutes - I need to try it out. In reality having a regularly serviced G260 fail so that you have to change to the octo yourself and can not use the G260 at all is even more rare than an out of air diver in the group. I guess most recreational divers don't plan enough gas reserves for a scenario where you have to go against a current with and ooa-diver to end the dive, to make this a valid reason.

I also wonder where the "nothing else" and "stupid idea" guys hide on my dive trips? Only diving with the club? Chartering the whole dive boat or owning your own boats? 😉
With 110 dives in 10 countries with like 15 operators I am not experienced at all, still I was on some dive boats already. Although not specifically checking out the other divers octos I can't remember seeing anything else than the typical octo-yellow for octos. This is true for instructors, guides, guests and rental equipment. As the G260 and other main regs are not even produced in octo-yellow it probably means 90-95% of divers are just stupid. Of course the numbers are just a guess. Could be 99% stupid divers out there. Don't forget about the stupid manufacturers who are even stupid enough to produce this inferior yellow stuff.

Long post, sorry. Sometimes it gets quite special here on scubaboard...
 
My 4 cents (this is a bit long)
the necklace/long hose reason: an octo is there for emergencies, to be able to end a dive - does it really matter much breathing from e.g. a R195 vs. G260 for a few minutes?
This I would answer in 2 pieces:
It does matter, within rec warm water limits OOA/G situations sneak up on you, besides being stressful mentally, they can be also physically
30-40m on Air is still “rec”; and gas density there is quite high, and close to comfortable limits.
If you are hyperventilating because of fighting current or panic due to OOA, that get you to a “risk” zone, not full risk but let’s call it “yellow light”: CO2 offloading

Now saying that is no implication that an r190/5 has poor or inadequate performance, it’s kinda fancy actually (far better than my 1st kit), and I believe in its “peak performance lifespan” (seat wear amd all, is almost on par with the 260

After buying my first kit to go on a liveabord (rec stuff only) I had a couple of shore dives check it before I’m there for a week
I basically “party crashed” someone’s rescue course in Hurgadah
First dive went alright, 2nd also good all the way to the turnaround, one minute I was 110 bar, the literal next 30, I am relatively calm still and I tell the guide/instructor
By the time he handed me his Octo (on a 110cm hose) I was at 0bar (very close)

I was on his left side; I think he also wanted out ASAP, so was finning like carzy
So we ended up being in a situation where he is dragging me by the mouthpiece, me trying to catch up, stressing, momentarily dropping his octo, chugging a bit of water, getting the octo again, calming down, asking him to go slowly, and safe at shore
(And they got a live victim to practice on for their class)

At shore we figured it was my HP hose transmitter interfaces (I didn’t spool it) that leaked
Got onto the boat fine, had fun, all good.

But if this happened to me at Canyon (Dahab) I’m quite sure it would have turned nasty

Since then I just upgraded the hose length of my octo, I don’t imagine anyone would like being dragged or that close up, I still have that 1st kit and use it sometimes, it has 2 identical (except for color) downstream regs (cressi compact XS) that frail in performance compared to my g260s; but they are matching, I don’t lose any performance I donate, I value my buddy’s life as much as mine
———
Nothing is stupid, some “schools” prefer downstream octos as they are better at handling IP creeps to save yourself from bursting hoses; some just prefer them because of how simple they are, some really dislike them.
We can share our thoughts to council OP and they’ll make the final call

I am for longhose / necklace in any diving situation, good habits die hard
——

the save a dive/Service kit reason: don't know how good the OPs technical knowledge is. For me it would not be a real difference, I can neither Service nor repair a regulator, beside of changing a mouth piece.
A service kit (esp for 2nd stages as they need much less complex tools to deal with) can be the difference between someone on the dive boat (or that dive shop at the destination that isn’t a dealer for this brand but certainly can service it) being able to fix it for you or not

——
the one reg fails on a trip, use the other Main reg-reason: is it diving with only one reg, without an octo then?
Mabe you can rent an cheap octo and it becomes your octo, you still have a nice primary
——
The switch between regs as primary/secondary between octo Id say is the biggest advantage; really elongates the “peak performance” life, regardless of reg design
 
I wrote that for me it is a stupid idea to have different regs, of different brands and models. And definitely I would never own one of those cheap plastic things called "octopus".
I find people using them to be "cheap" divers, who do not invest proper money for the safety of themself or their buddy. Saving 100 euros on a regulator? STUPID IDEA; sorry to repeat...
I prefer to use identical regs in any scenario, either using them as main+octopus, or for me and my wife, or my sons, or for main tank plus pony, or for deco stages.
In my family (all purely rec divers, I, my wife and two sons) we have 8 IDENTICAL second stages, that are all SP 109 converted to BA.
If I change them, I will get 8 IDENTICAL G250V or G260.
It is a mess servicing different regulators (of course I service all of them my self, having been trained on the 109 directly at the SP Italian Factory).
I see people owning 5 or 6 DIFFERENT regulators, and I think that, apart the need of specialised items for particular "tech" purposes, in a family of 4 purely recreational divers, like my one, all the regs must be identical...
It is also way CHEAPER.
Here in Italy, if you buy TWO G260 together you usually get a discount, making the price possibly smaller than a single G260 in the US...
See here:
 
I wrote that for me it is a stupid idea to have different regs, of different brands and models. And definitely I would never own one of those cheap plastic things called "octopus".
I find people using them to be "cheap" divers, who do not invest proper money for the safety of themself or their buddy. Saving 100 euros on a regulator? STUPID IDEA; sorry to repeat...
I prefer to use identical regs in any scenario, either using them as main+octopus, or for me and my wife, or my sons, or for main tank plus pony, or for deco stages.
In my family (all purely rec divers, I, my wife and two sons) we have 8 IDENTICAL second stages, that are all SP 109 converted to BA.
If I change them, I will get 8 IDENTICAL G250V or G260.
It is a mess servicing different regulators (of course I service all of them my self, having been trained on the 109 directly at the SP Italian Factory).
I see people owning 5 or 6 DIFFERENT regulators, and I think that, apart the need of specialised items for particular "tech" purposes, in a family of 4 purely recreational divers, like my one, all the regs must be identical...
It is also way CHEAPER.
Here in Italy, if you buy TWO G260 together you usually get a discount, making the price possibly smaller than a single G260 in the US...
See here:


I think that we are twins from different parents.
 
It is also way CHEAPER.
Here in Italy, if you buy TWO G260 together you usually get a discount, making the price possibly smaller than a single G260 in the US...
See here:

Great that I am from europe too and don't have to pay US prices. Still I think I could buy a first stage +1 G260 + 1 R195 cheaper than a first stage + 2 G260, as most shops have the first option available as a set and the discount I can get is the same for both options. But maybe your connections as an instructor are just better than mine. Anyhow I did not want to bring this discussion on the financial side of the descision.

I just wanted you all to underline your opinions with some more reasoning which turned out quite well. Thank you - great insights. I will probably try my R195 octo on deeper dives and in stronger currents in the future to have some more first hand experience on breathing quality vs the G260.
I also wanted to point out that stating that any other opinion than yours is stupid means that you think up to 99% of divers (who choose pre-configurated sets with 2 different 2nd stages) are stupid. As we have 34°C in Vienna today you must be melting down there in Italy, so there is no point in arguing with you. Thank you for explaining why you prefer to have 8 identical 2nd stages.
 
I mostly agree (even tho not my preference) with what you said but…
stating that any other opinion than yours is stupid means that you think up to 99% of divers (who choose pre-configurated sets with 2 different 2nd stages) are stupid
No one said that, the only close thing was when Angelo saying that for his situation it would be (given that he standardizes all the regs of the family) — that’s how I understood it
for me it is a stupid idea to have different regs,
Sounded like stupid from a financial/setup/maintenance effort pov, and it makes sense to me and didn’t have an offensive implication to others

I think stupid isn’t something that applies to this conversation; it applies to doing truly risky things (maintaining/tuning without knowing implications eg. dropping lever height) or dive profile/gas plan ; that would truly put your (and others) life at risk and deserves the label stupid

But I’m glad we’re starting to converge a bit.
Do let is know how the 195 feels vs the 260— I’m interested actually
 
On another front, I have another submission for the vote, now it’s not officially available anymore, and it’s even “less available” in the US. (That’s whz I didn’t originally mention it)
It’s a downstream reg: SP c350, tunable, effortless, great value
It has the same case as the c370, same almost frictionless lever, and has the unique advantage to barrel regs that the spring is out of the way of air flow
It doesn’t have a seatsaver feature, but it has a spring adj knob so you can tune it amd make the most out of the seat

Given it’s limited period of production as c350, internal wise equals (some schematics different branding) are c300, and subgear (SP economy brand) sg30 and sg50
The c300=sg30 have one different component, the poppet with the spring in the way, but that’s a 20eur upgrade
I have it as the sg50 (couldn’t find a c350)
 
I love the discussion!
While having all the regulators being same sounds like a fine idea, my wife loves my g260… so I don’t dive that anymore, kids love c370s, good breathers and small and light, I feel like they got it good each with MK11, both paired with 2 c370s. And atomic was our anniversary present from my wife, so I have to dive it :) My old s600 has seen the most dives and beating but is going strong and will probably outlast all the others :)
But I digress…
I am in the camp of two reliable high performance regulators for primary and octo.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom