PADI Self Reliant vs SDI Solo

[stuartv]

Hit Stuart,

Yeah, you are absolutely correct.

However, if the quarry in question was enlightened to the PADI course description and SDI/TDIs opinion, maybe they would change their misguided and ignorant policy?

The shop that controls the quarry offers SDI and PADI training, so I think they know what the course descriptions say. The shop owners are both SDI and PADI instructors.

 

[Spinal33]

Hit Stuart,

Yeah, you are absolutely correct.

However, if the quarry in question was enlightened to the PADI course description and SDI/TDIs opinion, maybe they would change their misguided and ignorant policy?

To iterate ad nauseam, Self Reliant is a Solo cert--and their course description makes it abundantly and redundantly clear. People who don't read will not lead.

I hope you ask that quarry your question sooner then later, because I am "dying" to hear their response!

As to Solo not being "exactly" the same as S/R, nothing in life is. However, both courses are so similar that PADI could probably be sued for plagiarism.

markm

Having done my DM and AI at one of those quarries mentioned prior, it was a question every PADI self reliant diver asked... the other question/complaint I used to field was the "why do I need to tell you my dive plan" (usually AFTER someone had completed a solo dive and got called on it).

The answer is simple - it's an insurance issue. The sites insurance company does not accept the PADI cert, but accepts the SDI one. If an incident occurs, the site needs to be covered, simple as.

More info here:
Important Info for Solo Divers

 

[markmud]

Having done my DM and AI at one of those quarries mentioned prior, it was a question every PADI self reliant diver asked... the other question/complaint I used to field was the "why do I need to tell you my dive plan" (usually AFTER someone had completed a solo dive and got called on it).

The answer is simple - it's an insurance issue. The sites insurance company does not accept the PADI cert, but accepts the SDI one. If an incident occurs, the site needs to be covered, simple as.

More info here:
Important Info for Solo Divers

Hi Spinal33,

Now that is a logical answer on the part of the quarry! Not a logical policy from the insurance company.

markm

 

[Wookie]

Hi Spinal33,

Now that is a logical answer on the part of the quarry! Not a logical policy from the insurance company.

markm

So look in the mind of the insurance company who is paying the lawyer to convince 12 peers who know nothing about diving that diving, long recognized as a team or buddy sport, can be safely done solo with proper training and equipment. That's why some operators, including me, require a card.

 

[markmud]

So look in the mind of the insurance company who is paying the lawyer to convince 12 peers who know nothing about diving that diving, long recognized as a team or buddy sport, can be safely done solo with proper training and equipment. That's why some operators, including me, require a card.

Hi Wookie,

Yeah, in general I agree with you.

But why would the jury accept the SDI Solo cert and not the PADI Solo cert (S/R). Padi's course description and curriculum are very nearly the same, except for the word solo. There are multiple synonyms that describe "solo" in PADI's description and curriculum. It is a "solo" diver cert.

You requiring a c-card that proves some form of training to protect your net profit is smart business. Financial and criminal exposure bad--net profit good.

Thanks,
markm

 

[Morrisman]

Whatever course you take, I think the intention is to be self-reliant and be able to provide yourself everything a dive buddy would provide. To start, 2 separate air systems, 2 buoyancy systems, 2 cutting tools, 2 masks, 2 computers. Lots of practice.

 

[markmud]

Whatever course you take, I think the intention is to be self-reliant and be able to provide yourself everything a dive buddy would provide. To start, 2 separate air systems, 2 buoyancy systems, 2 cutting tools, 2 masks, 2 computers. Lots of practice.

Hi Morrisman,

I agree with you totally.

I am a better diver because of Self Reliant course.

It is too bad that S/R is stigmatized by false assertions.

markm

 

[stuartv]

But why would the jury accept the SDI Solo cert and not the PADI Solo cert (S/R). Padi's course description and curriculum are very nearly the same, except for the word solo. There are multiple synonyms that describe "solo" in PADI's description and curriculum. It is a "solo" diver cert.

The actual course standards for SDI Solo say this:

Upon successful completion of this course, graduates may engage in solo diving activities.

I'm curious what the PADI Self Reliant standards say (not what the web page about the course says).

SDI explicitly says the diver can dive solo. If PADI is a little more conservative and says something like "graduates are prepared to complete a dive alone" that may be all the subtle distinction the lawyers care about. PADI says (for example), if your buddy disappears, this course prepares you to safely finish the dive by yourself. That doesn't mean they are saying you are qualified to START and finish a dive alone. SDI is clearly saying you are qualified to start and end a dive alone.

Regardless of the actual course content, I suspect what the lawyers look at only comes down to what the agency specifically says you are qualified to do upon successful completion of the course. The lawyers are going to rely on the "experts" (i.e. the training agencies) to specify exactly what the diver is certified or qualified to do. The course content is, I think, pretty much irrelevant.

It is too bad that S/R is stigmatized by false assertions.

What assertions have been made that are false?

 

[tursiops]

The PADI materials do not use "solo" but rather "diving alone" or "diving without a buddy."

It is a better course than SDI Solo in two ways: 3 dives are required (instead of just 2 in SDI), and the redundant air source cannot be a Spare-Air.

 

[scubadada]

The PADI materials do not use "solo" but rather "diving alone" or "diving without a buddy."

It is a better course than SDI Solo in two ways: 3 dives are required (instead of just 2 in SDI), and the redundant air source cannot be a Spare-Air.

I've always thought it bizarre that SDI decided to accept a Spare Air as an acceptable redundant gas supply. I could do a direct ascent to the surface from 90 ft, at 30 ft/min, at twice my usual RMV, that's it. I guess I could carry a half dozen of them instead of my 19 cf pony