PADI Self Reliant vs SDI Solo

[Colliam7]

Anybody find it interesting that PADI requires 40 logged dives to begin the Divemaster cert process, SDI requires 50 logged dives to begin their Divemaster cert process and they both require 100 logged dives to begin the respective Self Reliant and Solo cert process?

No, I don't find it to be particularly interesting. But, I have a sense from your post that you do. So, what do you find to be interesting about those numbers?

 

[Trailboss123]

No, I don't find it to be particularly interesting. But, I have a sense from your post that you do. So, what do you find to be interesting about those numbers?

I am a PADI Divemaster, so I will only comment accordingly. I think the thing that I find interesting is that one can become a PADI Divemaster with 40 logged dives of experience and in that context support a PADI instructor in open water certifications and take uncertified open water students out on open water tours (by him or herself) after skills completion on open water dives 2 and beyond. In that context, he/she is effectively supervising uncertified divers and effectively required to be extremely self reliant, but they are technically not experienced enough to qualify to take the self reliant course due to the fact that they lack the requisite number of dives/experience to become self reliant certified. Maybe "ironic" is a better word to describe my feelings- instead of interesting. Seems to me that PADI might want to lower the number of required dives to become self reliant certified or raise the number of required dives to be qualified to become a Divemaster. Personally, I would opt for the latter.

 

[tursiops]

one can become a PADI Divemaster with 40 logged dives of experience

I think you mean 60 to be a DM (40 to start the DM training).
But that does not change your point, which I agree with.
Yes, you should need 100 dives to be a DM. The bar is much too low.

 

[Marie13]

Please note the SDI solo class does NOT require a solo dive for certification.

I had to look at the standards myself, as I didn't believe it. I've seen my shop's instructors doing a solo class (latter part of the day). There was a solo dive going on (instructor on edge of quarry watching solo student's bubbles, one student in class).

I've been told your nav can be a bit off, but gas planning has to be spot on.

 

[Trailboss123]

I think you mean 60 to be a DM (40 to start the DM training).
But that does not change your point, which I agree with.
Yes, you should need 100 dives to be a DM. The bar is much too low.

Yes- I did mean 60 by completion and 40 to start. Thanks for catching that.

 

[chrisch]

...
Yes, you should need 100 dives to be a DM. The bar is much too low.

I think most of us divers would agree to that.

I think a lot of zero to hero $$$ dive training outfits would not

 

[Colliam7]

I think the thing that I find interesting is that one can become a PADI Divemaster with 40 logged dives of experience and in that context support a PADI instructor in open water certifications and take uncertified open water students out on open water tours (by him or herself) after skills completion on open water dives 2 and beyond. In that context, he/she is effectively supervising uncertified divers and effectively required to be extremely self reliant, but they are technically not experienced enough to qualify to take the self reliant course due to the fact that they lack the requisite number of dives/experience to become self reliant certified. Maybe "ironic" is a better word to describe my feelings- instead of interesting. Seems to me that PADI might want to lower the number of required dives to become self reliant certified or raise the number of required dives to be qualified to become a Divemaster. Personally, I would opt for the latter.

OK, thanks, I better understand the focus of your comment. And, I agree. PADI does allow for Instructor 'Indirect Supervision' on the tours, meaning a DM can lead student divers (at a 2:1 ratio) on those activities. Personally, I don't feel comfortable with 'Indirect Supervision' in that situation, and while I often have DMs lead a tour, I am always part of the tour. In addition, in the shop where I previously trained and taught, we required DMs to become SRD-certified since they are regularly put in the position of diving independently. I do not consider diving with an uncertified student to represent 'buddy diving, either, so leading a tour without another certified diver present is independent / solo diving. I would prefer the minimum # of dives for DM certification be be reset to 100.

 

[markmud]

Hello Trailboss and Colliam7,

This:

I am a PADI Divemaster, so I will only comment accordingly. I think the thing that I find interesting is that one can become a PADI Divemaster with 40 logged dives of experience and in that context support a PADI instructor in open water certifications and take uncertified open water students out on open water tours (by him or herself) after skills completion on open water dives 2 and beyond. In that context, he/she is effectively supervising uncertified divers and effectively required to be extremely self reliant, but they are technically not experienced enough to qualify to take the self reliant course due to the fact that they lack the requisite number of dives/experience to become self reliant certified. Maybe "ironic" is a better word to describe my feelings- instead of interesting. Seems to me that PADI might want to lower the number of required dives to become self reliant certified or raise the number of required dives to be qualified to become a Divemaster. Personally, I would opt for the latter.

And this:

OK, thanks, I better understand the focus of your comment. And, I agree. PADI does allow for Instructor 'Indirect Supervision' on the tours, meaning a DM can lead student divers (at a 2:1 ratio) on those activities. Personally, I don't feel comfortable with 'Indirect Supervision' in that situation, and while I often have DMs lead a tour, I am always part of the tour. In addition, in the shop where I previously trained and taught, we required DMs to become SRD-certified since they are regularly put in the position of diving independently. I do not consider diving with an uncertified student to represent 'buddy diving, either, so leading a tour without another certified diver present is independent / solo diving. I would prefer the minimum # of dives for DM certification be be reset to 100.

Those paragraphs are so profound they deserve an iteration!

Colliam7:
Your shop's requirement for DMs to have an SRD is just too logical. You may receive push-back from an agency or agency fan-boys.

Thinking outside the orthodoxy box should be punished with persecution of the highest order (sarc button now off).

markm