PADI Self Reliant vs SDI Solo

[markmud]

I don't know where you read it but it is wrong, you cannot trademark such terms, other wise PADI could not refer to their badge collector speciality as "Master Scuba Diver" as this would be the property of the US Navy.

I have no reason to question and every reason to believe your statement that the PADI and SDI courses are very similar in content, if the core skills are universally agreed then this is logical, much as the majority of basic courses are essentially the same independent of the agency that is responsible for the formal structure of the classes and certification of the level of training.

The fact remains the same the quarries mentioned all require the SDI ticket, wrongly or rightly. Many injustices are hidden behind the nonsense of "insurance" and it's requirements just as the legal system is a convenient scapegoat for many people the world over seeking to escape the tyranny of common sense. I cannot imagine being sufficiently motivated to dive in a cold quarry full of rusty old scrap either alone or with another person to such a level that I would pay money and waste time doing a course in order to dive there. I can imagine doing a buddy-free course (whatever nomenclature you choose) that would ensure no one I care about is criticised or liable in any way for letting me dive alone if I were unfortunate enough to get into bother whilst diving alone. For that reason and that only I have thought about doing the course and this controversy leads me to the SDI course. This is inconvenient to me as the PADI one is far more widespread and available to me locally. I would not care if the course actively taught me anything or not as long as it achieved my objective.

Hi Chrisch,

Yeah, I don't recall where I read about copy write infringement, but I think the link came from a Scuba Board post. IANAL, therefore, I don't recall the legal theory used to keep PADI and SSI (or any other agency) from using the word "solo" in the cert title.

Yeah, definitely go for the SDI course. I wanted the SDI originally; however, geography precluded that. My instructor could have jumped through hoops and certified me through SDI, but that comes with time delays and an uncertain schedule. My Instructor showed me both outlines and said he can do the PADI course in about two weeks. I jumped on the schedule and got the PADI course.

thanks,
markm

 

[markmud]

I agree there is a negative perception regarding solo diving.
But this negative perception is good to discourage most recreational divers from solo diving until they have the training, gear and skill set to do so.
Tech diving requires two systems of everything and self reliance. I am no longer comfortable diving with just one air system now that I have experienced the safety of backup systems.
I have also become aware that a dive buddy could be more of a risk than a benefit. Choose wisely. Be prepared.
Many of my dives include focusing on helping my buddy to dive safe, take their time, to feel comfortable and enjoy their dive.

Hi Morrisman,

I am sorry that I did not write my post clearly and you missed my intended context.

In my mind, Solo diving is not stigmatized, but the PADI S/R cert has been.

Those that don't know about certified solo diving may have an ignorant impression the first time they see a solo diver, but it is logical. Better to rely on yourself than to rely on an insta-buddy or other untrained diver with your life.

markm

 

[markmud]

Hi Tursiops,
You wrote:
"Actually, the PADI instructor can add information/skills too, but just cannot require them for certification.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. My PADI instructor added information/skills too.

markm

 

[drrich2]

But why would the jury accept the SDI Solo cert and not the PADI Solo cert (S/R). Padi's course description and curriculum are very nearly the same, except for the word solo.

If 'the other' attorney is a compelling enough debater to confuse the jury, seems like it's possible they might not see them as the same.

When I've looked at descriptions of the courses, the subjective 'spirit' I perceived was this:

1.) SDI Course - the purpose is to dive solo, and you'll need to become self-reliant to do that. The course explains there's value beyond that, but the prime purpose is very clearly deliberate solo diving.

2.) PADI Course - the purpose is to become self-reliant; this is desirable in a number of contexts, such as can arise if you become separated from a buddy and find yourself on an unplanned solo dive. And one of the various things you could use this training for is planned buddy less diving.

Accepting that the basic knowledge and skills taught (and hopefully competency typically attained?) are reportedly equivalent, these 2 courses may well 'look different' to a jury of non-divers, particularly since the people educating them about it will probably be partisan (for the plaintiff or defense).

While the issue of the PADI Self-Reliant course/cert. being 'stigmatized' was brought up in a later post, I suspect that's a natural consequence of PADI trying to distance itself from endorsing solo diving, even when offering a solo course. As per the quote above, "except for the word solo."

In a solo diving course, that could be a pretty important word.

Richard.

 

[stuartv]

Thanks for that feedback. Just makes the whole thing more annoying/silly.

Why? It seems to me that a dive operator deciding what cert to allow would base their decision on the certs requirements, not the optional things that an individual instructor can add.

An instructor CAN require a fully solo dive at the end tells an operator nothing regarding whether a particular diver has actually ever done a true solo dive before.

 

[Trailboss123]

Anybody find it interesting that PADI requires 40 logged dives to begin the Divemaster cert process, SDI requires 50 logged dives to begin their Divemaster cert process and they both require 100 logged dives to begin the respective Self Reliant and Solo cert process?

 

[tursiops]

Why? It seems to me that a dive operator deciding what cert to allow would base their decision on the certs requirements, not the optional things that an individual instructor can add.

An instructor CAN require a fully solo dive at the end tells an operator nothing regarding whether a particular diver has actually ever done a true solo dive before.

Please note the SDI solo class does NOT require a solo dive for certification.

 

[tursiops]

Anybody find it interesting that PADI requires 40 logged dives to begin the Divemaster cert process, SDI requires 50 logged dives to begin their Divemaster cert process and they both require 100 logged dives to begin the respective Self Reliant and Solo cert process?

In addition, PADI allows the S/R class to begin (for a certified and active PADI Divemaster) with just 60 dives, but still requires 100 for certification.

 

[stuartv]

Please note the SDI solo class does NOT require a solo dive for certification.

Good point. My Solo instructor required me to do one. From prior posts I mistakenly assumed it was required by standards. I see now that it is not. My bad for implying that it is.

 

[scubadada]

Good point. My Solo instructor required me to do one. From prior posts I mistakenly assumed it was required by standards. I see now that it is not. My bad for implying that it is.

I mostly do drift diving in SE Florida and that's where I did my SDI solo. I'm not sure how easy it would be to supervise a solo dive from a live boat. You're already carrying a flag, I suppose you could still shoot your SMB...