Not Feeling Well? New Hand signal.

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I read the article by DAN from the first post and came across this:

"The proper course of action is for the buddy to return the signal, terminate the dive, and head to the surface together. Without a prearranged communication plan, however, buddies who don’t know what is wrong may spend precious time trying to figure it out. Even worse, they might respond inappropriately, such as letting the ill diver return to the surface alone." [emphasis mine]

"To help avoid these situations and better communicate health problems while diving, PADI has developed a new standard hand signal for “I don’t feel well” that the organization now teaches in its courses. The signal is simple: With their fingers pointing toward them, the ill diver draws a large oval in front of their head and torso to indicate that they are physically unwell. "

As others have already mentioned this new hand signal is superfluous. A preexisting hand signal, the thumbs up, can be used to cover this situation. The problem, IMO, is that not all hand signals are explained well enough, or not at all to the students. In my OW class I was taught the thumbs up signal meant going to a shallower depth. This signal could be followed by the number of feet or meters for the new depth. I have since adopted the NACD (National Association of Cave Divers) one-handed signals. In an overhead environment the thumbs up means to exit to open water immediately. This signal must not be overruled and needs to be returned by the buddy. In open water the thumbs up means let's go to the surface now bypassing any deco or safety stops. It also cannot be overruled and must be returned by the buddy. In both cases the buddy pair stays together throughout the dive.

There are also a combination of other signals to convey problems (ex. the trouble signal followed by pointing to an ear). If the diver is so ill (as implied in the DAN article) that she must terminate the dive what point is there in attempting to explain the issue to your buddy? What can the buddy do about it? On the surface which is safer, you have more time to explain the problem in more detail where a hand signal could be confusing or misunderstood.

We don't need another hand signal. We need better communication regarding the meaning and use of preexisting hand signals predive and during OW courses.
 
No, I'm not "trolling." You people either have an agenda, or are incabable of listining. It is a very simple request to provide documentation. And you can't , WHY???? Because there is none.
You may not be trolling, but you are certainly acting like a brat and this thread is spiraling.

This thumbing 'rule' may NOT be documented to your satisfaction, but the 'rule' sure as hell is understood everywhere:

If your buddy is clearly calling to end the dive ('thumbing'), the dive is over and you are going up (safely), no questions asked or further information required.

Failure to obey this rule (documented or not) is a sure fire way to get injured or killed, and/or end relationships/marriages.

Regarding your ORIGINAL post about a new hand signal, I would cautiously point out that it is a PADI 'developed' signal. Since PADI's transparent mission is the enhancement of their profit margins by equating skill with certificates that can be bought -- at the cost of diver safety (*cough* Linnea Mills *cough*) -- IMO I would not put much stock in whatever PADI is attempting to sell (but this is a topic for another -- much commented upon -- thread).
 
I completely disagree. As @marsh9077 stated, part of the standards and requirements of teching for Dive 1, is that students recognize and demonstrate hand signals including “something’s wrong” (hand wobble). This is one of the first signals that is taught along with OK and Go Up.

The instructor should be going over this during the pre dive briefing and explaining that the student can end the dive. If an instructor doesn’t do this, or is unable to recognize that a student may be having trouble (see signs of a panicked or scared diver) then maybe that instructor should stop teaching.

It doesn’t matter if the course manual doesn’t say “tell your student they can end the dive”. Am instructor should be doing it anyway. No doing so is an example of lazy instructors who only want to teach minimum standards. These types of instructors are the problem. I’m tired of seeing instructors only teach minimum standards, skip things they deem “not important” (like how to snorkel) and only reviewing skills once. teach more than is in the book, that will truly make safe and competent divers who fall in love with the sport

Sorry not to sound rude but I'm really confused what is your point? You completely disagree with me showing you documentation that OW divers are required to know the "end a dive" hand signal and are required to learn the "end a dive" hand signal and are required to demonstrate the "end a dive" and signal. And just so we are all clear the "end a dive" hand signal is pointing your thumb in the upward direction AKA thumb a dive.

Are you from Alaska?
:rofl3::rofl3: Must be
 
And if you just point to the center of your body, isn't that enough?

And as I brought up in my last comment (only coming back as I received notice), how would this work during a night dive?
Ok, well lets look at that.
If I’m feeling unwell and was nauseous, had a spitting headache, felt shortness of breath, weak, something was seriously wrong and I needed to get to the surface ASAP, do I start pointing to each thing wrong? How is a buddy supposed to figure out what I’m saying? Plus, If I’m not doing well I’m not going to want to hang there pointing to all this different stuff, I’m going to want to give one signal that explains that I’m feeling sick and I need to go up!
 
So, other than OW buddie diving, we are in complete agreement. There is NO student training on signalling to their instructor they are in trouble. This isn't in any training manual, isn't taught, and is an issue that all respondants can not document whatsoever. Students are NOT taught how to signal if they need help, nor is this part of any training syllubus. And no one here can find any documentation otherwise.
This is simply incorrect.

Let's refer to the WRSTC standards. WRSTC members use these standard as the foundation for their training curriculum and materials. These are minimum standards, the agencies can go beyond them, but they cannot skip anything in the standard. WRSTC-affiliated agencies include PADI, SSI, NAUI, IANTD, RAID, SDI, PDIC, NASDS.

Here is the relevant section from the Open Water Diver standard:

4. Minimum Course Content The course shall consist of the topics and scuba skills required by the training organization and as outlined in this section.

...

4.7 General. Open water level information on other topics.
(1) Dive planning
(a) Planning and preparation, with emphasis on the prevention of out-of-air situations

and emergencies
(b) Emergency procedures
(c) Accident management/prevention
(2) Communications, both underwater and on the surface
(3) Diver assistance (self/buddy)
(4) Recommended diving practices, including safety stops
(5) Procedures for diving from boats
(6) Proper use of personal diving logbook
(7) Local dive regulations and protocols


In their Standard 10 "MINIMUM COURSE CONTENT FOR Common Hand Signals for Scuba Diving", the WRSTC discusses why hand signals are the basis of communication.

Effective underwater communication is necessary for the safe and efficient conduct of any recreational or training-related scuba dive. The most convenient and reliable method of communication between divers is through the use of simple hand signals.

I spoke with a long time PADI instructor about this today. His first response was that not only is teaching hand signals part of OW, it's even required for discovery dives. And here it is in the WRSTC Introductory Scuba Experience (discovery dive) standard.

4.3 General Knowledge. Introductory information to diving and the diving environment.
4.3.1 ...
4.3.4 Hand signals


https://wrstc.com/standards-downloads/
 
I see this often…
IMG_7597.jpeg
 
Thumb. No need to say why. It is a command signal.
It would be nice know at least why we’re going up.
Is it because of an eye lash got in the eye, got bored, or is it because a major medical event is taking place.
I don’t think this new signal detracts from anything, I think it adds more information and could be a good thing.
And night diving, don’t people use lights to see?
 

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