Not Feeling Well? New Hand signal.

[Zef]

I think the proposed "new" signal in the first post is unnecessary and could be potentially confusing....... especially if ever used on group dive with others who may have not thoroughly discussed and agreed on the signal.

Isn't this true of just about any sign?

My wife and I have been taking classes to learn American Sign Language, our daughter who recently moved home from university just started a beginner class....I look forward to the next time we dive together as our ability to communicate should be significantly enhanced.

-Z

 

[Zef]

This is along the lines of my feelings as well. I've had buddies who signal "cold". Like no sheet, it is below 45 degrees and it is freezing...but what do you want me to do about you being cold? If you want to bail on the dive then tell me, but do we have a whole discussion about me feeling the cold as well and still have no consensus as to what to do about it? If you want to go up because you are cold,, then show me cold and the thumb.

Don't try to signal stuff to me that I can not fix, nor signal things that are not worthy of some sort of response, action, or an urgent need for me to know about......has been my motto.

This is the sort of thing that needs to be stated/discussed during a predive brief.

Here is a different take on this same theme:
I used to dive regularly in cold water using a drysuit or semi-dry....my dive partners were often in wetsuits. Although I could not fix the fact that they became cold when indicated, I could turn the dive and start heading to our egress point, or ascend above the thermocline if one was present at the site we were diving.

The reality is that thumbing the dive because one is cold, doesn't do a whole lot, unless there is a wicked thermocline, as even on the surface one is still in the water....but being attentive and compassionate to ones dive partner is key...I suppose if my dive partner was being an arsehole and didn't turn the dive if I signaled "I am cold", then I would thumb the dive to make it known that its time for me to get out of the water.

The reality is that the communication before splashing is just as critically important as communication underwater, and I would venture to say even more so as the pre-dive communication "sets the stage" for how things will unfold beneath the surface.

-Z

 

[Umpman]

Point being, show me from the OW course where any student can "thumb" a dive. Where is that taught in any OW course? I need documents, not opinions or clips from the internet or magazines.

It is in every open water course. They may not use the term’ thumb the dive’ but it does say any diver can end the dive.

In the SSI course under ”buddies and dive briefing“ it says “Each diver has the right at any time, for any reason, to call off a dive, even if you are dressed and ready to enter the water” In SDI, it says “any team member can end the dive at any time, for any reason.” in chapter 14 “the buddy section and dive planning”. Now, if you are under water, the “thumbs up” signal means “GO UP” in other words “end the dive now (safely).

So yes, any diver (including a student) can ”thumb a dive”, in other words, end the dive. As an instuctor, you and your class go as slow as the slowest student. If one student has a problem, everyone waits. If one student has a problem and has to go up, everyone goes up (unless you have another instructor with you on the dive”.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I think the new signal could be useful.
First give the “something’s wrong” wobbling hand signal alerting the buddy something isn’t right, then followed by giving the large oval “feeling sick” signal, followed by the “go up” signal. It will alert the assisting buddy that there is something physically wrong with the diver and not just nerves or scared or some other problem. It means stomach nausea or a heart issue or some other internal problem. The assisting buddy will be better informed of what the distressed diver may be experiencing and can better prepare themselves for a rescue based on what the diver is going through.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I think the new signal could be useful.
First give the “something’s wrong” wobbling hand signal alerting the buddy something isn’t right, then followed by giving the large oval “feeling sick” signal, followed by the “go up” signal. It will alert the assisting buddy that there is something physically wrong with the diver and not just nerves or scared or some other problem. It means stomach nausea or a heart issue or some other internal problem. The assisting buddy will be better informed of what the distressed diver may be experiencing and can better prepare themselves for a rescue based on what the diver is going through.

So how is that signal better than pointing to a specific part of the body?

 

[Wibble]

Attention!! (Flash torch into their face)
Look at me (finger pointing at me)
Some-thing-wrong (hand wobble)
Puke sign (hand to reg and fingers stretched out)

Even as a non-PADI sanctioned de-facto gesture it should clearly convey the meaning.

 

[GF99/99]

Could you show me in any globally certified OW dive course syllabus where ("they can thumb a dive for any reason") this is taught?

I do belive globallly all that is actually taught is to "Not dive, when Not felling well," or something similiar.
thnx

Here is the link to the old vid:

Its the first thing OW students are taught its part of Dive #1 requirements. Its also part of the confined water sessions. Yes they don't use the exact words "thumb a dive" but it is some version of that.

Any instructor who isn't a complete window licker should teach their students that they can thumb a dive at any time, for any reason.

Spot on!! I think this about sums it up. brilliant!!

It is in every open water course. They may not use the term’ thumb the dive’ but it does say any diver can end the dive.

In the SSI course under ”buddies and dive briefing“ it says “Each diver has the right at any time, for any reason, to call off a dive, even if you are dressed and ready to enter the water” In SDI, it says “any team member can end the dive at any time, for any reason.” in chapter 14 “the buddy section and dive planning”. Now, if you are under water, the “thumbs up” signal means “GO UP” in other words “end the dive now (safely).

So yes, any diver (including a student) can ”thumb a dive”, in other words, end the dive. As an instuctor, you and your class go as slow as the slowest student. If one student has a problem, everyone waits. If one student has a problem and has to go up, everyone goes up (unless you have another instructor with you on the dive”.

To add to @Ketojoe nice list since everyone seems to love that agency that starts with P and ends with I and thinks they are the gold standard to diving just did a quick Control F search in the Instructor Manual and it specifically states that for Dive #1 it is a REQUIREMENT to know the end the dive hand signal. And then a Performance REQUIREMENT for Dive #1 is to demonstrate hand signals.

So first the student is taught all the hand signals including end dive, then they are required to demonstrate them back to the instructor.

Additionally on the first page it states: "Text appearing in boldface print denotes required standards that may not be deviated from while teaching the course" and as you can see the performance requirement for dive #1 are all boldface.

 

[happy-diver]

Does that mean these signals been superseded or are they still relevant

 

[NothingClever]

That circular hand signal means “Does my mask and snorkel color combination really pull together my dive outfit?”

 

[ChrisDee]

So, other than OW buddie diving, we are in complete agreement. There is NO student training on signalling to their instructor they are in trouble. This isn't in any training manual, isn't taught, and is an issue that all respondants can not document whatsoever. Students are NOT taught how to signal if they need help, nor is this part of any training syllubus. And no one here can find any documentation otherwise.

(This is NOT the same as ending a dive, for any reason.)
(And reffering to nebulus hand signals that could be subject to wide interpertation, dosen't cut it either.)