leisurepro worth it?

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Ever read it closely?

Let's see.... SP gives you "free" parts if you pay for annual service. So do most others.

But labor is typically only covered for either 90 days or one year.

What if your reg is working just fine, thank you, and you don't see a need to have it serviced annually? You blow it off ONCE (accidentally or intentionally) or lose an invoice and the "parts for life" deal is void!

(Atomic is the only manufacturer, to my knowledge, that doesn't insert that polite little screwing into their warranty. Good for them - one of the few manufacturers who really gives you some value for buying from an "authorized" dealer.)

Second, the cost of labor DWARFS the parts. SP's "reg rebuild kits" are typically $10-15 from DiveInn. Labor is typically in the $40 range. So if you service every OTHER year rather than annually, and BUY the parts, you STILL end up ahead - significantly - over the service life of the reg (10+ years for a top-of-the-line reg is not unreasonable if taken care of, is it?)

The much-vaunted "warranty" is, in fact, worthless.

If the reg breaks or is otherwise misbehaving, or if you feel that it is time for a tune-up, then just pay for the parts and labor. The parts are insignificant compared to the labor charge, and instead of doing things on a schedule that some manufacturer insists, which may not meet your needs (on EITHER end - you might need to have it done MORE often if you dive particularly frequently!) you get it done on YOUR schedule AND it is probably cheaper to do it that way rather than cow-tow to the manufacturer's demands!

Warranty schmarranty.

This is just more LDS rhetoric and scare-tactic, just like the nonsense about regs being "complicated". Yeah, that's why techs from a shop can be "certified" to fix a new one after a one or two hour class at DEMA! One or two hours?! The training necessary to fix most machinery is measured in tens or hundreds of hours!

This stuff is no more complicated than learning how to change your car's oil!

Think man!

That's why God gave 'ya a brain!
 
How does a LDS know where your equipment has come from...unless you tell them. It could have been a gift. Will they really deny repairing equipment just because you didn't buy it in their store? What if you have always bought from your LDS & then move to another state? Are you out of luck? If your LDS really hates the online shops, then just don't tell them. I think the LDS just doesn't want their nose rubbed in it.
 
No brainer - save the cash. Dive shops are great for instruction, for trips and for fills. But for gear? Never. Odds and ends (read: High Margin stuff) sure. But when it comes to 3 and 4 digit expendatures, no way.

I get raped on my Nitrox fills by my shop, and I'm cool with that. I also book 90% of my weekend boat trips through the shop, and I'm cool with that.

When they try to foist a limp Andy's drysuit on me for $1500 (but we'll throw in the class...") and I can get a DUI for less, and get a class someplace else, I did it.

When they try to retail (RETAIL...who pays that?) BC on me for close to $600, and I can pay LeisurePro the $375 for the same BC...? An Atomic Reg for $600+ and I get it new in the box (with cards) off of eBay for $350 (then pay another $50 for it to be fully checked out by an Atomic dealer, of course) I do it. My shop is selling Atomic Fins for $189 (not exactaly an essential life support item) and I can get them off of eBay for $125.

You need to be smart with your money.

Dive shops sell gear to rookies, to students and to Divers who feel throwing their cash at them helps "support" them. And in return, the "support" I receive from my shop is...

* Reasonable Prices on gear...? NO
* Free Fills... ?please (that's like a Bank offering free Checking)
* A cool hang? I have friends, thanks.
* Free advice? I pay full price for my classes through my shop.

If my shop wants my business, they need to earn it, and the way we keep score these days is with money.

How about a Frequent Buyer Club? Offer me progressive discounts with accrued purchases. I've easily dropped over $2500 - $2800 in my Shop over the last 3 months (2 advance classes, 2 nitrox classes, 5 trips and misc small purchases) and what do I get in return?

I get cool trips, classes and world class teaching...but no incentive to buy gear. Yeah, it pisses off my shop owner when I roll in with new gear that he DIDN'T sell me for my classes and trips... but you know what, he COULD HAVE sold me the gear. I just found it cheaper elsewhere (not a little cheaper...a LOT cheaper). If it was even close, I'd buy from the shop. its never close.

I say be smart. If you buy off of eBay (75% of my gear comes from there, 25 from LeisurePro) get all of your life-support checked out by your local authorized service dealer.

Don't throw money at the shop. Upgrade with the savings and by better gear, and support your shop through training, trips and continuing education. Buy your gear on-line and save the cash. How do you think I can afford this weekend's trip (which I booked through my shop)...? With the $125 I saved on my LeisurePro BC. Everyone wins.


PS: if you're buying new gear, the entire warranty arguement is completely over-rated. In 5 years of personal diving (10 for my wife) we have never, NEVER had to seek warranty service on our Regs, BC's Computers or other essential warrantable stuff. That's another arguement store-front dealers use as a scare-tactic.
 
You're selling me a piece of life-support equipment that requires a warranty? Will I be around to use it?
 
That's just it, the things everyone wants from a dive shop are the things we don't make money on. Everything except equipment is there to create the need for the equipment. We are of course working hard to change that.

I will never sell enough gas fills to even make the initial cost of the system back. The fill station is only there because it must be there to be calle a dive shop (dealer).

We charge half as much for an OW class as it costs us. The class must lead to equipment sales or we're in trouble.

Trips are only to create trafic (sales).

Yes the model is idiotic but it used to work. We are having an awful lot of trouble getting the prices of all these other thing (especially training up were they belong because of the old time shop owner still kissing the hind ends of the manufacturers.

I would rather give equipment away at cost and get paid well for teaching as teaching takes my time, labor and talent. And quite frankly we are currently donating our time and talent to the dive community.

On the rare occasion I do sell a piece of equipment, the manufacturer is the only one making any money.

My goal is to get the retail totally out of the picture and make a buck on training. Probably never happen though.

I causes me so much pain to make money for the fing manufacturers.
 
Genisis accuses dive shops of thinking we are doing divers a favor by being here. Guess what, we are. Thats all we do all day is favors. 90% of what we do is free of a loss.

One big donation.
 
You say you can't raise the price of training because everyone else would undercut you and you'd die.

You say you must subsidize the training and fills with equipment sales, or you will die.

You're wrong.

Support what I'm trying to do here.

Get the price-fixing out of the equation. Totally. Get the FTC and the state AGs offices on these manufacturers, and the problem goes away.

Now prices for equipment fall dramatically, as you must compete with Joe. But Joe must also compete with you, which means that Joe can't sell his training at a loss any more, since he can't subsidize HIS business EITHER!

So which is it Mike?

Do you really believe that you're selling all this other stuff at a loss and subsidizing it with equipment sales under policies that look to me like they're illegal?

If so, why would you NOT get involved in fixing the problem, so you are forced to compete on price in the equipment sales - but so is everyone else in the business, which means that the price of training industry-wide will no longer be subsidized!

Now, suddenly, the playing field is levelled.

Now, suddenly, the guy who sells a huge volume of hardware has no more leverage over you - because he can't subsidize HIS training with his "huge volume" either, since price competition means that the cross-subsidization goes away.

Now, suddenly, you can charge a "fair" price for training, since everyone else is in the same boat - their ability to cross-subsidize is gone too!

That's what competition is about Mike - allowing people to succeed or fail on the strength of their product and service, rather than allowing someone to cross-subsidize one line of work with another and beat you over the head with it.

You'd be FAR better off in a world without these restrictive agreements. So would the other dive shops. Yes, the cost of things would shift - some would be cheaper, some more expensive - but on balance both you and the customer would win.

So why do you oppose this, Mike?
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
We charge half as much for an OW class as it costs us. The class must lead to equipment sales or we're in trouble.

....

On the rare occasion I do sell a piece of equipment, the manufacturer is the only one making any money.

So you make no money at all on equipment sales, AND lose money on training?

Where does your revenue come from then?
 
Genesis,
Because I think you and I disagree as to what it is the manufacturers are doing that is wrong. I am not told what to charge, I am told where I can buy the stuff and how much I must buy and for that matter who I may sell to and how. Those things add to limit volume and high overhead which then raises my price. I don't think the price fixing you are so against exists (at least I don't think it's wide spread.

jonnythan,
Now your getting the idea. We sell a few masks snorkels and fins (and less of those than we used to). We sell those things for more than we pay for them. But, We spend more teaching than what we make, we spend way, way more filling tanks than what we make so...the end result is that I don't have to take MUCH out of my pocket to keep the place open. Why keep it open at all? Because I'm still hoping to find a way to get back the many many many thousands of dollars and years of work and training I put into creating the place. It's like stock, you don't really lose until you sell. The other reason we don't want to give up teaching. There is no other shop that I could teach for.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...
jonnythan,
Now your getting the idea. We sell a few masks snorkels and fins (and less of those than we used to). We sell those things for more than we pay for them. But, We spend more teaching than what we make, we spend way, way more filling tanks than what we make so...the end result is that I don't have to take MUCH out of my pocket to keep the place open. Why keep it open at all? Because I'm still hoping to find a way to get back the many many many thousands of dollars and years of work and training I put into creating the place. It's like stock, you don't really lose until you sell. The other reason we don't want to give up teaching. There is no other shop that I could teach for.

Where do those thousands of dollars come from?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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