leisurepro worth it?

[MikeFerrara]

jonnythan once bubbled...


Where do those thousands of dollars come from?

Correction, that should be "Where did those thousands of dollars come from? " A lifetime of working. It was what you might call my life savings. We were stupid enough to think that we had something to offer that was of value to divers. We were wrong. Don't get me wrong, we offer plenty that you don't get from any other shop around here. We are just not able to trade if for money. An OW card is not worth very much and divers spend the rest in the Caribbean. What we didn't know was all the things we didn't know.

 

[Genesis]

An OW card is not worth very much and divers spend the rest in the Caribbean.

That's because of the cross-subsidization.

As for your assertion that manufacturers don't tell you what to sell for, you've self-selected those out that do. And a number of them, even a majority of them, do.

I have some documents showing this already - in plain black ink. I've been told by a number of LDSs that such policies are present in other manufacturer's dealer agreements.

Perhaps you would care to name the brand(s) that you have personal knowledge of that do not impose any kind of price restraint. I'd be very interested in knowing which brands treat customers and dealers with that amount of respect.

 

[GDI]

:doctor:
well I must say that I agree with mddolson. LP has good pricing but then some manufacturers will not honour the warranty for equipment from discount stores and they deny that that store has the right to sell their brand. When you but equip consider more than just the price. Look at warranty, service and the long term costs of owning that equip. Additionally it is aways best to deal in person. A face is worth alot when problems occur. Good luck

 

[ScubaDawg2]

I personally like LP's prices.....

If all the equipment manufacturers make such a stink about warranties, where does LP get their stuff???

You ever wonder about that? If the manufactures like say DiveRite make such a big stink about LP and how LP is not authorized, then I would assume that DiveRite dont sell to them. So again, how does LP get there stuff? Back of a tractor-trailer down a dark ally when there is no moon? NOT. Think about it....


Manufacturers have to complain about discounters like LP. Else the LDS dealers would revolt. The bottom line is that folks like LP most likely make up a BUNCH of manufacturers yearly income.

my $.02

--dawg

 

[ChrisScott2104]

I shall tell you what I tell all the people who come into my shop: When you can get scuba lessons and air over a phone line or mail order then order from Leisure Pro. Also with certain gear lines like Scubapro and Oceanic if they are not an authorized dealer then you are up **** creek if something happens to your reg that warranty would normally cover.

Now what I don't tell my customers:
WE ARE NOT HERE AS A PUBLIC SERVICE!! We are a dive shop that is in business. We are not here to teach you how to scuba dive we are here to sell gear so that we can make a living. Many shops barely break even when they have class. The only reason they are in business is to sell scuba gear. If you buy your gear off Leisure Pro then don't bother going back to see them for anything because you're useless to them. That's the harsh truth

 

[ChrisScott2104]

GDI once bubbled...
:doctor:
well I must say that I agree with mddolson. LP has good pricing but then some manufacturers will not honour the warranty for equipment from discount stores and they deny that that store has the right to sell their brand. When you but equip consider more than just the price. Look at warranty, service and the long term costs of owning that equip. Additionally it is aways best to deal in person. A face is worth alot when problems occur. Good luck

They offer to buy "X" amount of BCs from the LDS for a little below LDS cost. While the LDS will take a small hit it boosts their numbers with the maker of "Y' equipment so they get better prices on gear.

 

[redacted]

ChrisScott2104 once bubbled...
We are a dive shop that is in business. We are not here to teach you how to scuba dive we are here to sell gear so that we can make a living. Many shops barely break even when they have class. The only reason they are in business is to sell scuba gear. If you buy your gear off Leisure Pro then don't bother going back to see them for anything because you're useless to them. That's the harsh truth

That's why I alway buy my car from my local gas station because that is where I get gas and repairs. Klyde won't even do an oil change on a car he didn't sell.

I realize you are following the most common business plan found it the scuba retail industry, but that doesn't make it a good plan for the customer. And if it isn't good for the customer, then it shouldn't be good for the business. I also realize it would be very difficult for you to change that plan since that is what your local competitors are also doing. But online and mailorder sales of major items at half the price you demand are just something you will have to deal with. And how it is dealt with says a lot about the business. Unfortunately, you can only keep you customers uninformed or deceived for so long. And with forums like this some are learning the truth before they even start. What I really don't fully understand is why many LDS seem to be so protective of the business model. I'm afraid the answer is they like it and don't mind doing whatever they need to do to protect it. How long do you think this can continue?

In the mean time, I'm going to reap the benefits of this situation: cheap gear on the internet, and cheap air and training at the LDS.

Guess I'm just another stinking capitalist. I know recreational diving will not disappear. But the LDS that doesn't evolve is not going to be able to survive. I suggest you figure out how to change rather than how not to change.

 

[Genesis]

But online and mailorder sales of major items at half the price you demand are just something you will have to deal with. And how it is dealt with says a lot about the business. Unfortunately, you can only keep you customers uninformed or deceived for so long. And with forums like this some are learning the truth before they even start. What I really don't fully understand is why many LDS seem to be so protective of the business model. I'm afraid the answer is they like it and don't mind doing whatever they need to do to protect it. How long do you think this can continue?

In the mean time, I'm going to reap the benefits of this situation: cheap gear on the internet, and cheap air and training at the LDS.

Ding!

The LDS that gets pissy about this rather than adapting and working with customers (such as myself) to get rid of the restraints that make this system "popular" is one that, when the model changes, I will not patronize.

Why?

Because they have proven that their first interest is not the customer and a long-term relationship. Their first interest is in trying to extract as much money from me as possible, and they're not doing so by providing the best value around - they're doing it by restraining trade and resisting offering hardware at a fair and reasonable price.

The Internet and mail order are not going way. Not now, not ever. The manufacturers who you LDS's claim are "shoving these terms down your throat" are laughing their butts off while you starve as people figure out the truth - that they should buy their gear - all of it - from LP and DiveInn.

Scubapro does not care how many regs YOU sell as a LDS. They only care how many regs THEY sell, and if the demands shifts to the LPs and DiveInns of the world (and it is and will continue to!) they don't mind. They make the same profit either way.

You LDS owners had better figure out that it is and always will be an adversarial relationship between the manufacturer and you. They are NOT your "partners" or "friends". They are interested in exactly one thing - unit sales - and they don't care how they achieve it. If they can manage to dupe you into believing that they are "helping" you in an effort to keep you loyal, so much the better - even if it drives you into the ground. Since your volume is insignificant compared to DiveInn's and LPs, you simply don't matter to them.

The LDS had better figure out who really butters their bread - its not the manufacturers.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You are right about one thing Genesis and that is that the manufacturers are not our freinds. However they are being rewarded for their behavior so it will not end. The things the manufacturers do that really hurt me are not against the law. All I can do is not do business with th worst ones. I would rather do business with the Chicago mob than SP or Aqualung. I will sell drugs or porn before I peddle their crap.

 

[Genesis]

in fact doing things that look like price-fixing to me - unless every SP dealer that I've ever talked to is lying to me!

I can believe one or two might be, but ALL?

When does it change? When the LDS owners change it. As consumers we are "one removed", and thus have less power to change it.