Do I need a BC like the students wear?

[boulderjohn]

I’m still trying to figure out if this is good or bad?
On one hand everybody is in the same gear so training (gear wise) is standardized (according to that shops whim). I suppose it makes it easy, “just buy this”.
On the other hand the evil money grubbing shop and their profiteers are only interested in numbers so the gear with the biggest markup is used even though it might be cheesy and not in the best interest of the students or the instructors to use.
IDK? Flip a coin.

When the shop I worked for back in the day went to that second model, I had some objections.

1. I didn't use any of the required gear in my own diving, and I did not like having to lie to my students and tell them that I did use it because it was the best when in fact I not only did not think it was the best, I thought some of it downright sucked.
2. Everything I did use in my own diving was sold by the shop, and I did not like not being able to tell students why I preferred those items rather than the required ones. (And yes, the required ones were indeed chosen because they had the best markup.)
3. I did not like the fact that I had to pay for the gear I used with the students while working for the shop and only while working for the shop.

I was in the meeting when the owner of the agency the shop switched to explained how that all worked, and he had an answer for any objection. So did I. I left the shop before I had to buy the gear.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

2. Everything I did use in my own diving was sold by the shop, and I did not like not being able to tell students why I preferred those items rather than the required ones. (And yes, the required ones were indeed chosen because they had the best markup.)

That reminds me of an out of town customer of the first shop I taught at (customer found me here on SB actually) that tried to spend $15000 in one month on training and equipment. (I say tried as the owner wouldn't order everything the customer wanted and begrudgingly gave a refund after months of trying to dodge the customer). The customer wanted Shearwaters (which were provided). The owner then complained to me about not steering him to some crap computer (starts with L, can't remember the name).

What the actual F? The customer knows what he wants. He's paying a lot of money for equipment and training, and I'm supposed to steer him to a crappy product like a used Fiat salesman?

And people parrot "support your LDS". Fortunately this dive shop went out of business. I appreciate the LDSs that focus on the right product for the right customer, even if it means a lower profit margin, as it means a longer term customer who dives longer.

In addition, instructors are usually contractors, not salaried employees. Their job is to teach, not sell.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

When the shop I worked for back in the day went to that second model, I had some objections.

1. I didn't use any of the required gear in my own diving, and I did not like having to lie to my students and tell them that I did use it because it was the best when in fact I not only did not think it was the best, I thought some of it downright sucked.
2. Everything I did use in my own diving was sold by the shop, and I did not like not being able to tell students why I preferred those items rather than the required ones. (And yes, the required ones were indeed chosen because they had the best markup.)
3. I did not like the fact that I had to pay for the gear I used with the students while working for the shop and only while working for the shop.

I was in the meeting when the owner of the agency the shop switched to explained how that all worked, and he had an answer for any objection. So did I. I left the shop before I had to buy the gear.

Personally. I don’t think it’s in the best interest for the shop to run it this way long term. Maybe if the owner has plans to dump the business in a few years and is just trying to milk as much profit as possible short term. But students eventually will be exposed to other gear and ideas and realize that they were force fed something that was not in their best interest. This can and will have a negative effect.
Look at your situation, they lost an instructor and probably several shop groupies too. Don’t underestimate the power of groupies, who do you think buys trips and continues to spend money at the shop?
And as far as instructors go, in this day and age local shops can’t afford to lose any instructors.
At least in my area, they are not a dime a dozen anymore.

 

[boulderjohn]

I didn't use any of the required gear in my own diving, and I did not like having to lie to my students and tell them that I did use it because it was the best when in fact I not only did not think it was the best, I thought some of it downright sucked.

Just so you know, the instructors in my shop were required to purchase and use Suunto Cobra III computers, Aqualung Slingshot fins, and Atomic S11 integrated Octo/inflators, telling their students those were the best items on the market. Yes, instructors had to say this with a straight face.

 

[pauldw]

Atomic S11 integrated Octo/inflators

Dude, come on. The Atomic Aquatics SS1 is an Atomic Aquatics regulator. Even the most bottom end of their regs is better than the vast majority of the regs out there. Also, I use an SS1, and I have never died. So there!

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I'll offer my 2 cents, which interestingly echoes most closely a non-instructor.

First, my shop would prefer we use gear they sell. Not one particular model or brand, but something in their range. I mostly do that, but because they sell quality and I get a pretty steep discount on any gear I've bought over the years. Other instructors don't, and there's a little behind the scenes grumbling by shop management, but nobody is "fired" over it. More like peer pressure from respected peers.

The shop doesn't mandate gear configuration either. Some use doubles and long hose around the neck, some the same reg setup the students do. So very much a "no pressure" environment.

All that said, I dive a backplate/wing with a standard octopus setup when teaching. I don't think the students realize (until I point it out) that my BCD is different from theirs. (They don't all dive the same make and model of BCD out of the rental fleet, either, so it's not like they only know one BCD.) The power inflator works the same way as theirs as does the deflator . It's got a baggy bit on it that inflates and some strappy things that attach to me and my tank, the same as theirs.

I don't use an Air2 because I want to look like the students when demonstrating skills and also because it's less than ideal when teaching lift bag use in an Advanced class. (I always do S&R as one of the dives in Advanced.) At work, I tend to use a lift bag on occasion as well so it's just easier all the way around. Lastly, I'm just not a fan of the system, but your mileage may vary on that.

I understand and appreciate the notion that you may be matched up with an insta-buddy who has very different gear. However, you can't show every possible weird configuration said insta-buddy might show up in. To get around this, I tell students there are a few things they MUST go over with a new buddy. One of those things is how that person will donate in an out-of-air situation. Hand the secondary off or the primary? Or just "do the dab" and let the victim grab it themselves? (I also emphasize discussing where the weight is located on the buddy, so in an emergency the know how to drop their buddy's weights.)

So if the OP wants my advice, I'd say get a standard octopus, but stick with the back inflate BCD.

 

[ofg-1]

Well the answer is no. What you really need is one of these:

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Just so you know, the instructors in my shop were required to purchase and use Suunto Cobra III computers, Aqualung Slingshot fins, and Atomic S11 integrated Octo/inflators, telling their students those were the best items on the market. Yes, instructors had to say this with a straight face.

What BC were they told to use/buy?
That’s actually more to the point of the thread.

 

[boulderjohn]

What BC were they told to use/buy?
That’s actually more to the point of the thread.

Seaquest Balance. That was more reasonable.

 

[Cthippo]

I think my instructor ran a different rig for every day. I remember at least one OW dive she was wearing a vest type BCD with an SS1 and an Atomic T25. I raised an eyebrow at the latter knowing what they cost and she explained that the shop's 25th anniversary was the same year those came out so her and her husband each bought one to celebrate. The next dive she was wearing a dry suit and a different BCD but it really didn't matter because I was focused on my own gear.

I feel like if geqr famialirity is still an issue the student may not be ready for OW.