Is leisurepro.com the best place to buy?

[dilldapp]

I ordered a Bare drysuit (complete package) at Leisure Pro and I got delivered half of the package. I started now waiting for the rest for some weeks already. I am going to contact them soon. I did it ordering by phone to make sure everything was available and on stock.
I hope I don't make a bad experience in the next weeks. I will let you know.

Dilldapp

 

[rje634]

I just recently bought an OMS nitrox analyzer from LP (100 cheaper than anywhere else) and the O2 sensor is shot, I brought it back to them and the situation is still in process. They mentioned that they have to send the analyzer back to OMS for repair.
By the way I am close enough to NYC to shop at their store. I'll let you know how it turns out.
BTW I've also used Scubatoys and have nothing but kudos for their operation...

Well to update my LP return:
Last week I received a brand new OMS analyzer to replace the one that I sent to them. Yes it did take 6 weeks but it did get replaced. Am I happy I got a new analyzer -Yes ... Am I happy it took 6 weeks - NO!!!
Guess there is some amount of sacrafice for a good price...

 

[rescuediver009]

I ordered a Bare drysuit (complete package) at Leisure Pro and I got delivered half of the package. I started now waiting for the rest for some weeks already. Dilldapp

that is another problem that I think that has not been mentioned in this discussion. When buying online, you lose the relationship of the dealer. You instead get the huge corporation and you then become a number and not Dilldapp...

 

[lmorin]

I'm a newbie looking for a first major equipment purchase for myself and my wife. The whole issue of the relationship between LDS and internet prices and price fixing has been bothering me a lot since I started looking at gear and prices. Here is some info from the Antitrust website of New York State http://www.oag.state.ny.us/business/antitrust.html

New York's antitrust law, known as the Donnelly Act, Sections 340-347 of New York's General Business Law, was enacted in 1893. Through amendment and interpretation the Donnelly Act has come to follow closely the federal Sherman Act, although it differs in some key respects.

The act prohibits price fixing, bid rigging, monopolization, boycotts, tying arrangements, and territorial and customer allocations, among other practices.

PRICE FIXING

The antitrust violation which may cause the most serious injury to consumers is price fixing. When manufacturers or distributors agree to fix the price of a product or service, prices paid by consumers are inflated. Price fixing is illegal, whether at the wholesale or retail sales level or even among buyers. Agreements which fix maximum or minimum prices are likewise illegal, such as minimum fee schedules set by associations of professionals.

MARKET ALLOCATIONS

Market allocations include agreements between competitors that they will not compete with respect to specified customers, geographical territories or products. These agreements are illegal at all levels of distribution, whether among manufacturers, wholesalers or retailers.

RESALE PRICE MAINTENANCE

Resale price maintenance is another form of price fixing. It is often called "vertical" price fixing. It occurs when a manufacturer or distributor requires, rather than suggests, that its customers charge a specific price for an item at resale. Resale price maintenance is illegal at the wholesale or retail level.

It is likely that there are not written agreements between manufacturer and retailer condoning price fixing of the types listed above. If it exists (and it sure seems to), then it is probably more subtle. For example, Zeagle appears to constrain the "minimum advertised price," but this is not the same thing as constrain the minimum price at which the product can be sold. So, does constraint of price advertised constitute a violation of the price fixing laws? I would argue yes, but it is an issue for the lawyers. It is also very likely that there are "suggestions" by the manufacturers that the LDSs then re-state as being requirements. The sales staff or even the owners may not even know they cannot legally be requirements. Regardless, LP is a good example of a company pushing the envelope of an archaic system. Thank you Al Gore for inventing the internet. I live on Long Island, NY, and another way to deal with the situation here would be to have a very large dive shop open and begin to function as the diver's version of a local Walmart with low prices forcing the LDSs into a new business mode. Apparently that has happened to some extent in south Florida where there are so many shops with some quite big. Regardless, if you think the relationship between manufacturers and LDSs is artificially keeping prices high, file a complaint with
1. OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK [or your state]
2. ANTITRUST DIVISION OF THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
3. FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION
or, engage in the good old American tradition of litigation against the LDS's and manufacturers.

 

[Sean326]

that is another problem that I think that has not been mentioned in this discussion. When buying online, you lose the relationship of the dealer. You instead get the huge corporation and you then become a number and not Dilldapp...

What are you talking about??????


It's just like buying at the LDS. I dive a lot and now my son's dive. I've bought a ton of stuff at LP, on average probably every other week. Since my kids are growing and we live in the northeast it seems someone is always growing out of a hood lost a glove.
Neeeeds the latest reg or fins etc...

Mostly I order on line and I check off my salesman's name "Yankee" really thats his name. he knows me, my sizes what I like and when there is a problem he calls me.

I'm 39, I've been diving and buying stuff since I was 15. I've bought from both LDS and LP. There is no comparison, LP offerers 90% of the customer service level and 110% of the convenience over the LDS for about 50% to 75% off the retail price. Another thing that makes the LDS different from LP. Given that most LDS's are not as well stocked as LP the owners always try to sell you what they have to move their inventory and they can almost never sell you brands that they don't have a relationship with.

I wanted a new cold water reg for an upcoming Ice dive in January (Norway) I had decided on the Zeagle flathead VI/ZX. My LDS had one in stock from the late 90's and tried to sell it to me for over $550.00 (way lower than msrp) and tried to convince me it was the same as a new one. I researched it and it wasn't, these older Zeagles are made in France by Apeks and are an old design. The new ones are American made with significant design changes and technical improvements. LP had the latest model for $389.00. Last year I wanted a Poseidon for my right tank my LDS spent weeks talking me out of it (cause he was not a Poseidon dealer) I bought one from LP and it's a great reg.

In many years of buying from LP on average over 12 orders a year I've gotten 1 pg with a broken lens and 1 small BC when I ordered XL in both cases I sent the items back and they sent me the replacements with less effort than it takes to drive to the LDS.

 

[Sean326]

It is likely that there are not written agreements between manufacturer and retailer condoning price fixing of the types listed above. If it exists (and it sure seems to), then it is probably more subtle. For example, Zeagle appears to constrain the "minimum advertised price," but this is not the same thing as constrain the minimum price at which the product can be sold.

You got bigger fish to fry, how about oil, lumber, cars, food etc.

If you manufactured Imorin brand dive masks and a retailer came to you and asked to sell them in their dive shop why couldn't you sign an agreement with them to sell them at certain price. Isn't that freedom, Capitalism and America???? Now if all you dive masks manufactures got together and decided on prices that may be different.

I'm pretty sure that Mr Zeagle, Mr. Scubapro and Mr. Atomic arent sitting down in a smoke filled room deciding world regulator prices.

Having said all that please refer back to my opening sentence and I bet the oil, lumber and car guys do have little get togethers OPEC etc... (but I'm sure it's just social)

 

[lmorin]

You got bigger fish to fry, how about oil, lumber, cars, food etc.

If you manufactured Imorin brand dive masks and a retailer came to you and asked to sell them in their dive shop why couldn't you sign an agreement with them to sell them at certain price. Isn't that freedom, Capitalism and America???? Now if all you dive masks manufactures got together and decided on prices that may be different.

I'm pretty sure that Mr Zeagle, Mr. Scubapro and Mr. Atomic arent sitting down in a smoke filled room deciding world regulator prices.

Having said all that please refer back to my opening sentence and I bet the oil, lumber and car guys do have little get togethers OPEC etc... (but I'm sure it's just social)

Your examples are to the point, but in fact I shop around for all the things you mentioned. Gas is controlled by world oil prices which are rather beyond my control. I just bought cedar siding for my house by shopping around the internet until I found the right product at the right price. Coming from Canada. There are many auto dealers locally and I look for the model that suits my wallet. And food sales are about as competitive as you can get with an enormous number of choices ranging from upscale to pick your own and farmstands. Not so with dive gear. It is a manufacturer controlled market. I will repeat part of my above post that is probably the most relevant:

RESALE PRICE MAINTENANCE

Resale price maintenance is another form of price fixing. It is often called "vertical" price fixing. It occurs when a manufacturer or distributor requires, rather than suggests, that its customers charge a specific price for an item at resale. Resale price maintenance is illegal at the wholesale or retail level.

If you don't get it, this means that the manufacturer cannot require the retail agent to charge specific prices. It has nothing to do with several manufacturers colluding on the price of regulators, for example. Another of the price fixing no-nos concerns limitations on who can sell what in certain places. For example, anyone should be able to start a new dive shop and sell the same stuff as the shop down the street and beat the prices of the older shop. If the manufacturer prevents this from happening, it is price fixing.

 

[fishchaser]

This thread is great and timely. I am a newbie, looking to buy all my gear over the winter so when spring rolls around, I'm ready to go. This will give me time to find the best gear for me and my budget and the best prices, whether that's the internet, ebay, or LDS.

My LDS is extremely helpful, but I'm not sure that I'm ready to pay their gigantic markup for their help. I mean it's only thing if it's maybe 10-20% on small ticket items (under $100), but I'm seeing as much as 40-50% markup (over internet advertised prices) on large ticket items. When you're looking at spending $2000 on gear, I have a problem with paying $3000 for the same stuff from a LDS. A buck is a buck, but a grand isn't something I'm willing to give away for a little advice, especially after finding the scubaboard as well as a local scuba forum. Lots of good advice there and it's free (but hard to tell from some of the bad advice, so I guess I get what I pay for).

On the other hand, my LDS claimed they will match other advertised prices from authorized dealers, but in the same breath claimed that Scubatoys, scuba.com and LeisurePro were not authorized dealers. I've since learned the truth about Scubatoys and scuba.com (went to manufacturer's website and looked them up in their dealer listings), but have yet to re-approach the LDS with my findings.

If LDS's were to match other prices, I believe that would be in their best interest and an improvement on their business model to keep up with the internet sales model. They'd keep their local business, even if it was at a smaller profit. More business is better. Inventory turns are good and the increased volume leads to better pricing from the manufacturers, which then can increase profit.

 

[Ari]

I buy gear at LP. Never had problem servicing it at my LDS.....

Ari

 

[rescuediver009]

What are you talking about??????
In many years of buying from LP on average over 12 orders a year I've gotten 1 pg with a broken lens and 1 small BC when I ordered XL in both cases I sent the items back and they sent me the replacements with less effort than it takes to drive to the LDS.

I was not talking about quality of product, but moreso the quality of the relationship with your LDS. I am sure that when you tell them your name over the phone, they do not say his Sean hows the kids? whats new at work? Instead it will be, yes sir, I have your purchase for $XX and it will be in the mail shortly, thank you for shoosing Leisurepro. And if you call back ten minutes later, they will be sure to have forgotten all about you.
It is not hard to send good stuff in the mail. What you see is what you get. Off the shelf into a box and read the prduct description off the net every now and then. Not that tough. But to take it off the shelf show you what it looks like and point out all the features and answer your questions with a concrete example takes a little more skill.